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No "ARAHAN BAYARAN" from EPF..please help

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asked on Oct 15, 2014 at 02:11
by   Chaster
EPF approved my friend’s health withdrawal application, however rejected her request for payment under “ARAHAN BAYARAN” (which is collect cash from the bank counter) and insists that she open a bank account with their panel of banks. What the hell…looks like EPF is owned by the banks nowadays. Members should be given the choice if they want CASH or whatsoever method of payment because it is their money anyway. 

EFP rules is at such that if you wish to withdraw under “ARAHAN BAYARAN” you must be a bankrupt and a person needs to prove it by producing a letter from the insolvency department, furthermore if your withdrawal is under RM1,000. Is EPF nowadays governed by insolvency law? I though bankrupts’ EPF are protected by law. 

Anyway, unfortunately my friend believe that she might be a bankrupt (not confirmed, she was abroad), however she is unable to open any saving accounts because the banks have already blacklisted her since she owes other banks. She can’t be a bankrupt yet because her travelling abroad is not restricted, moreover she just recently renewed her passport. Therefore she is in limbo now and not knowing what to do. She is better off being a bankrupt if that the case of just producing a letter.  
 
As such, hopefully you can advise on the following matter and answer some of my questions:-

1) Have anyone managed to request an “ARAHAN BAYARAN” which was approved by EPF? If yes, please share your experience
2) Can a bankrupt person just walk into a bank and open a basic saving account? Do the bank have a system to check if someone is a bankruptcy?
3) Since she can’t open an account in Malaysia, can she open an account in Singapore? Is Singapore banks connected (online) with Malaysian banks to track blacklisted or even bankrupt people?
4) Would it be a problem nowadays for a Malaysia to open a Singapore basic bank account?

Hope to have some help soon. Thanks
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 03:35
by   jeff005
@Chaster

The answer to most of your questions is at "sad woman" posting.  GO:-

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-2865.htm

1/All remitances overseas has to go thru BNM. If BNM have registered a bankrupt, wouldnt they stop this money going out? Your chq gets stuck in spore bank, BNM reject money transfer, how are you going to get a replacement chq, it may take ages and more problems.!!

2/She just renew passport means she is not a bankrupt unless BNM/JIM has not updated immigration. Why dont just go to JIM to check status and get a letter, then you can get a cashier chq.

3/She is withdrawing @50 or @55.?? Read

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-2888.htm

4/If you are a confirmed bankrupt, EPF will not issued a cash cheque to you but an ac payee chq direct to JIM. For bankrupts, leaving your undrawn monies inside EPF is the best option. Nobody  can touch it even JIM. Drawing it out exposed the monies naked. EPF monies inside EPF AC is protected by LAW.
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 06:15
by   vkpc
Why dont just go to JIM to check status and get a letter, then you can get a cashier chq.
JIM will not give letter to anybody who is not a bankrupt.
The fren is not a bankrupt as evident from her travels.
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 06:37
by   chester
@ 1/All remitances overseas has to go thru BNM. If BNM have registered a bankrupt, wouldnt they stop this money going out? Your chq gets stuck in spore bank, BNM reject money transfer, how are you going to get a replacement chq, it may take ages and more problems.!!

Thanks for your advice. I am puzzle with this statement you've just made. Where did you get such information? Please share your resources because I have read in this forum that some bankrupts had managed to use foreign bank to withdraw their EPF, wonder if its true. Appreciate it.
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 06:52
by   chester
@Baldirunner

First you mention this...
2/She just renew passport means she is not a bankrupt unless BNM/JIM has not updated immigration. Why dont just go to JIM to check status and get a letter, then you can get a cashier chq.

Subsequently your wrote this...

4/If you are a confirmed bankrupt, EPF will not issued a cash cheque to you but an ac payee chq direct to JIM. For bankrupts, leaving your undrawn monies inside EPF is the best option. Nobody can touch it even JIM. Drawing it out exposed the monies naked. EPF monies inside EPF AC is protected by LAW.

Arahan bayaran or you can call it cashier chq is only given to bankrupts who able to produce a document proving he/she is a bankrupt, that's was I understand from EPF today and you were right under your statement no.2, however doesn't your statement under no.4 contradict with the no.2 statement??? You are really confusing me ha ha ha. Where do you get all this information and are they reliable or are confident enough to uphold to what you believe. Would appreciate your reply. Thanks again.
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 07:11
by   chester
@VKPC

Thanks for the advice. Yes it would be good for her to do a check first with JIM, just in case.

However, what if she is not a bankrupt yet, only blacklisted by the banks?

Please don't advise on opening a local account because all her previous accounts have already been deactivated by the banks (because being abroad or probably blacklisted) and she had tried opening a saving account, even a joint venture, almost with all local as well as foreign banks, however all being rejected with no reasons given.

Therefore the only way is to go abroad, let say Singapore and open a bank account there and get a bank draft from EPF. However, since Bladirunner mentioned that BNM monitors foreign remittance and will withhold payments to bankrupts, won't it be the same for blacklisted people??

And if she is a bankrupt, what letter does she require? Wouldn't the status document be sufficient?

It just seems like the BANKs control EPF and its members funds and EPF is now governed by the banksand members have no say in their choice of withdrawal. This is really unfair.

Please advice . Thanks
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 08:17
by   chester
@Bladirunner

Just went through BNM rules...here is what i read...

B. Foreign Currency Account (FCA)
Rules on retention of foreign currency by residents are further liberalised :-
Residents are free to open FCA onshore or offshore (except for export FCA). No specific prior permission is required.
There is no limit on the amount of foreign currency funds a resident is able to retain onshore or offshore.
A resident without any domestic credit facilities is free to convert any amount of his ringgit funds for credit into his FCA maintained onshore or offshore.
A resident corporation with domestic credit facilities is allowed to convert ringgit up to RM10 million in a calendar year for credit into its FCA.
A resident individual with domestic credit facilities is also allowed to convert ringgit for credit into FCA as follows-

For education or overseas employment purposes
· Up to USD150,000 for credit into onshore FCA or FCA maintained with offshore banks in Labuan; and
· Up to USD50,000 for credit into overseas FCA.

For other purposes
· Up to RM100,000 per annum.
Exporters may now retain any amount of their foreign currency export proceeds onshore with licensed banks. The current limits of between USD30 million and USD100 million are abolished. All export proceeds continue to be required to be repatriated to Malaysia onshore.

My friend is only withdrawing around RM50K for her medical reimbursements. Do you think BNM will stop the payment if she is indeed a bankrupt??
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 11:24
by   vkpc
If you sit there and keep insisting that the banks wont allow you to open a savings account and you are not a bankrupt ( show stamps on your passport ) after many hours or after 2-3 days, EPF will give you a bank draft.  It has been done before.
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 14:40
by   Andrew
{Please don't advise on opening a local account because all her previous accounts have already been deactivated by the banks (because being abroad or probably blacklisted) and she had tried opening a saving account, even a joint venture, almost with all local as well as foreign banks, however all being rejected with no reasons given.}

POINT TAKEN................................... We wont bug u on opening Joint Savings Account.

For Bankrupts, BNM will "freeze" all bank acs under that name. Monies inside acs still yours  pending JIM instructions.

BNM "deactivate" accounts and "blacklisting" nationwide under a particular name... Elements of frauds, e.g. Money Laundering.

Are you a Malaysian?  Your definition
"ARAHAN BAYARAN" = CASH CHEQUE.??

{EFP rules is at such that if you wish to withdraw under “ARAHAN BAYARAN” you must be a bankrupt and a person needs to prove it by producing a letter from the insolvency department, furthermore if your withdrawal is under RM1,000}
Did the EPF officer gives your friend such information?. Make a report to EPF for "Misinterpretation". Or your friend misunderstood??.

You are confusing me too.

You have not answer "bladi" question on age withdrawal. Health withdrawals can at account 2 only at below @55. Maybe at Account 1 for special request when there is no more monies at Account 2.

{She is better off being a bankrupt if that the case of just producing a letter}
Your perogative.. your choice.. HER monies..!!

How To Help when your friend is so "negative" on EPF rules..??
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 15:13
by   Zeus
Simple..

Go buy a few "chops". Chop on her new passport. Show she have travelled overseas last week only. Then go EPF office and apply again. Lepak there till the EPF gives you a "ARAHAN BAYARAN".

CAUTION:  It is fraud. People have been caught before. Those were the "Fraudulant EPF withdrawals" victims jailed years ago....!!

The net can give you even more methods, but wants 30% of the withdrawal amount. Min withdrawal amount RM30K. But IF get caught.. If she goes to jail.. have still to pay the 30%. Deposit for further "advice" 5%.

Free Method and no "fraud" go read :-

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-2888.htm

yOU want FORUMERS TO VERIFY THEIR POSTINGS... Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..
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answered on Oct 15, 2014 at 18:39
by   jeff005
@chaster

My posting reply
(2) A STATEMENT
(4) A FACT

U refer to "ARAHAN BAYARAN"=CASH CHEQUE. EPF officer ask frenz to go JIM and get a letter in order to get the "AB" for bankrupt. go lo.. If can get letter means bankrupt. Then go back to EPF with letter from JIM(at least 2) and request for "ARAHAN BAYARAN"=cash chq. See what the same or other EPF officer says lo..

If no letter issued from JIM, then go back EPF and present your case, says u meet up with Encik Zaid Ibrahim at JIM and prove your trip with parking tickets or whatsoever and then ask the EPF what to do next.

Posts and sharing of experiences in this forum or in/on the NET can be accurate or false, how to verify? That is why I do state that "Take my info with a pinch of salt" How could I be in so many different types of situations so that i can share accurate circumstances.?? I only got 5 legs ma...

I see no contridictions in BETWEEN my (2) and (4) above. The contridictions arises from the info you get from your understanding of EPF RULES AND REGULATIONS. (4) is FACT,  (2) is a statement, go and experience the process yourself and you would understand better. It is your frenz problem, I can make assumptions and dont get affected by it, there is no such thing as free lunch..

So, there is no need to LOL.. Ha ha ha...

As for FCA, no comments, i am a poor man, no desire to learn unncessary offshore accounts. If i have got lots of monies to hide.. I wont be writing or posting in this forum. I would have use my precious time to make more "MONEY" from my MONIES....

I have given "ADVICE" to you to read on certain postings. Quess you have not. THe answers to your frenz issues is there oledi. No short cut. READ..

Once Bankrupted the Bankrupt can deal only with the permission of the OA/JIM.
1/JIM will write to BNM to authorise opening of bank ac.
2/JIM will write to appointed bank to open ac.
3/JIM will write to EPF to authorise withdrawal with attached conditions.
4/JIM will "keep" some of the monies  to repay creditors.
5/JIM will TELL you what you can and cannot do, including your lifestyle, what time to wake up and time to sleep.

"PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE ABOVE, I CANNOT VERIFY THE ABOVE AND PLEASE DIGEST THE ABOVE POSTING WITH A PIECE OF KOREAN HARD SALT ROCK"

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.!!!

bYEbYE..

GOODDAY..!!!!!!
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