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Bad debt advice needed

918 Views  ⚫  Asked 7 Months Ago
asked on Jan 31, 2022 at 09:29
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Hello everyone, I am in need of advice. I'll try to make it as short as possible. I was reading through some Lawyerment Answers posts to try understand but I guess I need to ask for advice also.
Note: Main information stated as plain sentences, additional information in brackets to help understanding the situation). I tried to make this as short as possible. If I have any additional information, I'll notify.
 
I used to own several cards (around 10 banks plus some personal loans) when working at a bank. The situation at that time (about 2009) was abit difficult because, the eldest sibling quit his job and pushed all the bills to us due to his attitude and feeling entitled because "the oldest sibling sacrificed his studies to support the family etc etc.." (That's another story anyway..) After I left my quite good job, I out of pity towards my parents (since the eldest just dropped everything on us and did his own thing), I used the cards, advance and loans etc. to pay the household bills, plus I was drinking alcohol also, which I think I shouldn't have started in the first place.
By mid 2013 I couldn't pay because I wasn't getting any job offers after leaving the previous job.
In 2013,I even made this stupid mistake of lending RM2k to this friend, who wanted to pay by 6 months or so, only to job hop, and get into a few accidents in a couple of years. This bugger blocked my number as well after I wanted my money back since it had ballooned to RM7k plus (which I took under cash advance since he borrowed from me previously and paid up, and he said it was a short under 1 year loan so I was stupidly ok with ) and I had given much time for him to recover and resume working. (This same "friend" also pulled me into a HYIP (High Yield Investment Program), until he have insider at "A" Credit company to fraudulently approve loans. This RM9k loan i put into the investment only to see the whole site disappear a few months later after earning my daily RM400). 
Had many many calls from banks and collection agencies  threatening this and that. Even had threats of "come with police trick" which made me run off into the jungle for a few hours, leaving my parents alone. (Really feel useless leaving the parent alone like that) The last payment I made was sometime in  2014 or so. Last email i sent was around 2016 as I checked a few days ago.
As for employment, after I left that good job, I haven't been able to have a good stable job. In between I have worked in a call center, factory canteen being self employed and eating at places of worship. Income in all these jobs were way below what I used to earn. The lowest was earning RM300 a month. Even resorted to asking pocket money from family.
During MCO I managed to get a small sponsorship re-skill program but it was only half a year. I made some EPF withdrawals in my savings/salary account where I keep it. My plan is to use this cash to pay for some certification fees and living expenses while I am still studying, and standby a some cash to pay for rental + expenses if I get a job further away.
My questions are:
1. I basically never entertained these collection agency calls nowdays. They have been quiet but have started to call again. Plus calling my emergency contacts as well. Because, if I answer, they will keep hounding me to pay and reactive the account. If I don't pay then I cannot settle it. Back and forth like that also don't reach anything.
2. Some new agencies have been sending letters after a while of silence. Just received one letter a few days ago.
3. As for payment, I really can't pay anything as I am not employed. I withdrew my EPF i-schemes money to get certified and get better jobs to pay these outstanding off, as well as used the cash for paying rental & expenses when I get a new job. I was so worried earlier when I couldn't login to my internet banking until I had to reset it. Should I just withdraw all the remaining money? Are there any safe alternatives to keep it?
4. I did consider filing for bkcy, but thinking that if I can work in neigbouring countries, I can earn more to pay these monies off faster. So I didn't file it.
5. I received an SMS few days back threatening to freeze accounts etc. I am very worried. As I'm not sure from which company and which account these sms are coming from.
6. Total amount due I don't recall, but all should be under RM50k except for one bank. Last email replied in January 2017 saying I'm not having a stable job, and last email received but not replied was in Oct 2017. Last payment made on this was around 2014 if not mistaken during restructuring of the outstanding amounts.
7. I have no tangible/valueable assets (eg. house, car, jewelry, expensive hobbies FD, etc). House and car not under my name although I paid some portion. I only have a bicycle, a smartphone and laptop for doing my studies nowdays. In my previous address, I have just a few hobby items but most of the space has been hogged by this sibling with his things. I have a small plot of land inherited at a kampung, but it's not that substantial, because each generation passes it to their kids, so initial 2 owners become 4 owners then 8 owners etc.
8. Adding on, i contacted AKPK in 2013, but the said they couldn't help me because I am unemployed.
9. Last checked my CB around [url=tel:20142015]2014-2015[/url] if not mistaken. I have been under the radar and laying low to avoid anyone hounding me. I worry if going to print my CB and CTOS etc will trigger an update somewhere whether it's location, phone number etc.
10. Address wise, most i follow as per IC, except one or two accounts using my family house address.
11. I have contemplated ending it all as well as crime and gambling to get myself out of this situation but I just couldn't do it. I keep thinking what if I do it then I cannot live my life to the maximum? The gambling online also comes with risk and I don't want to do anything stupid that can jeopardize my career options. Also I am worried if having these oustanding will raise a red flag if I apply for jobs, since MNCs will do background checks.
Basically, it's not that I don't want to work. It's just that I haven't been able to get a good job. If I had the means, I can surely literally "throw the money at their faces" so to say..I have tried and tried applying for basic jobs like at mini marts and I never get it. (This is mostly likely because I have been a manager level previously and a top performer in my previous jobs. I only managed to get work in the factory canteen because my schoolmate is a chef and he asked me to help him out due to staff shortage. I didn't stay there long because the owner cum manager was starting to play with the staff's salary because of bad cash flow and the working conditions were bad.If I stayed also it would become problematic later on with such a character.)
Please help advise what I should do. My life has been in a mess for the past 10 years and I want to turn things around.
Thanks in advance.
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answered on Jan 31, 2022 at 23:22
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Please stop doing reckless actions like writing emails to your creditors. Laws and debts have no sympathy nor compassion.

It amounts to admission to whatever the creditors claims and it voids the protection under the 6 years limitation act.

If you want to get out of this mess which is self created, you can find a holistic way of resolving it by reading backwards this bankruptcy section for the past 2 years.
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answered on Jan 31, 2022 at 23:38
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What actually affects and could determine the outcome depends on your age, male or otherwise, single or divorced, have children or not, your edu level /career experience and your commitment to stand tall ever again.

Nothing bad is forever. Stress kills, you are not the first nor the last to end life. I have been down this path b4. I survived and love the simple life of the mountains and leave the mundane life of a materialistic world.

Whether the blacklisting would remain forever will depends on your current actions. You are already blacklisted same as in an insolvent state as an adjudicated bankrupt.
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answered on Feb 3, 2022 at 09:35
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Hello @jeff005,
Thank you for your replies. I have been reading abit by bit. However, what is your opinion on my savings account (which currently holds my iSinar money)?
From what I read here, there is a Moratorium extending debts to RM100k as well as the multiple stages that have to be gone through before any bkcy status is given.
Should I do something (eg. withdrawing everything) you know, as a contingency plan? I really need those funds to pay for my certification exams and living costs. Should I be checking my CB also?
Thanks. 🙏
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answered on Feb 3, 2022 at 10:33
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edited Feb 3, 2022 at 10:36
by   jeff005
It is prudent to withdraw any excess moneys from any account based on the amount of debts as had declared as above.

What is the *CB* being referred to?

To be continued later...

The is n no more moratorium of 100K.
It is 100K threshold now..
It can be a combo total of all debts.
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answered on Feb 3, 2022 at 19:21
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Hello @jeff005,
Thanks for your reply, and Gong Xi Fa Cai also.
What I mean by CB is, the Credit Bureau report.. you know, the CCRIS report.
And, is the RM100K threshold permanent now?
Does the RM100K combo total include more than 1 bank? (Eg. Bank X RM50K + Bank Y RM50K). 
Attached is the sms I received. I am just worried about my account.
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answered on Feb 4, 2022 at 21:17
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edited Feb 4, 2022 at 21:43
by   jeff005
@ Arty Party

CB is, the Credit Bureau report
There are 4 PCBs Credit Reporting Agency (CRA) in Malaysia under Credit Reporting Agencies Act 2010.

Only BNM CCRIS is under Govt and is on banking transactions only.

It is nice of you to share your knowledge here on what is known as "3rd Party Search". Sharing of data among the 4 PCBs is a common knowledge. It can be paid search.

As a token of appreciation, here is my reciprocal reply to ur Qs :

1. And, is the RM100K threshold permanent now?



Normally once Gazetted, it will be enforced very soon.
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answered on Feb 4, 2022 at 21:52
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edited Feb 4, 2022 at 22:16
by   jeff005
2. Does the RM100K combo total include more than 1 bank? (Eg. Bank X RM50K + Bank Y RM50K). 

Read Section 5 (1) of the Bankruptcy /Insolvency Act 1967

Conditions on which creditor may petition
 
5. (1) A creditor shall not be entitled to present a bankruptcy petition against a debtor unless— (a) the debt owing by the debtor to the petitioning creditor, or if two or more creditors join in the petition the aggregate amount of debts owing to the several petitioning creditors, amounts to *fifty thousand ringgit; ( *Hic.. 100,000* very soon !!!)
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answered on Feb 4, 2022 at 22:04
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edited Feb 4, 2022 at 22:14
by   jeff005
3. Attached is the sms I received

The 2 smses that you u received are normally just threats from the banks DCs.

To play safe, just go to any courts and use your I/C to check if you have been made a Judgement Debtor (Penghakiman Ingkar?) before. If you have been made a Judgement Debtor before, then it may not be an empty threat.

I have a small plot of land inherited at a kampung,
If it is joint owners, it is not easy for JIM to seize lelong this land.
Have the title deed been issued (with your name inside?)
If it is kampung land, are you a Malay?
And is it a "Malay Reserved Land"? If it is, even harder for JIM to act.

Nota :
Normally such msgs from DCs send to Chinese is in English.
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answered on Feb 4, 2022 at 22:29
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edited Feb 4, 2022 at 22:49
by   jeff005
4. I did consider filing for bkcy

At certain situations, filing for Debtors Petition is more prudent;

Read here :

https://www.lawyerment.com/answers/questions/9908/debtors-petition-self-application-for-bankruptcy

Interests stops once self bankruptcy..  Read here :

https://www.lawyerment.com/library/kb/authors/10

Nota :
The accumulating interests can kill a debtor faster, there is no way to dig a hole in the ground like an ostrich to hide ur face.... !!

I have always advocate self bankruptcy if the debts is too high and the debtor is unemployed.



AND :-
A bankrupt can still apply permission from JIM to go overseas to work based on ur personal Qualifications and experiences.. (there must be official offers from overseas).

i apologize for writing in bits and pcs (still on hols mood.. hehe).
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answered on Feb 5, 2022 at 10:15
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Dear @jeff005,
If I knew those sms were just taik cicak on the wall, I wouldn't be so stressed out all this while.
But I do recall sometime in 2013, I did receive a registered letter to attend a court case. However I do not know if this is real or not (as in the DC make it up) as I was very scared then. I guess although working in a bank, yet some things your trainer don't teach you..
But so far I have checked my IC at the Immigration portal and there is a "Tiada Halangan" status.
I plan to go to EPF by next week, so I would like to know if printing my Credit Bureau report trigger anything?
Anyway I am not Malay but the land itself is under all the relatives, so each portion is not that big. I was considering making it a farm, but it's not exactly fertile land, unless I do some hydroponics. Not sure if my name is in the deed, because the person managing, a "sibling" it attacked me while I was sleeping, so I can no longer trust him, and another cousin wants to manage it instead. So everyone want to talk big end up nothing done lah.. land just sitting idly like that.
As for declaring bkcy, although can get permission to go overseas, I have to deeply consider it as it does limit certain aspects.
As I recall, the last payment I made was in 2014. Does that mean the Limitation Act already kicked in? Limitation Act also applies for cc loans converted to term loans also right? It's not that I don't want to pay, but if that is the law..
If I buy number and suddenly strike jackpot RM40million then different story la..😅
Come to think of it, I am puzzled how one person's selfish act caused me so much of trouble. I still remember when I was still asleep at 9am, a DC called the house, he instead of covering for me, he called me loudly to take the call. Whereas few years before, when his payment lapsed a few months, a DC called and I picked up, i argue with the DC some more. That's the thanks I get. Man, what an attitude. This person I no longer consider as family.
Anyway are you able to advise me more? I'll probably get the EPF nomination done and sent to the EPF, then can drop by BNM. I prefer to print out hardcopy as I don't want to do a CB report online. 
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