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Self-representation for Industrial Court Trial

159 Views  ⚫  Asked 2 Months Ago
asked on Sep 19, 2021 at 05:35
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Hi, 

I need to get some pointers on self-representation at industrial court. All said and done, my hearing date is coming next month. I have done all the filing (SOC, Rejoinder, Bundle of Documents) myself so far. Some of which I learnt from the posting here itself. 

If I may get in touch with those who have had any experience or information on what will need to be done or prepared for during the trial will be very much appreciated. 

Thanks! 
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8 Answers

answered on Sep 21, 2021 at 00:02
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edited Sep 21, 2021 at 02:03
by   jeff005
I have done all the filing (SOC, Rejoinder, Bundle of Documents) 

The die has been casted, what more needs tobe commented on?

Some of which I learnt from the posting here itself.

In this forum, documented here for the past 7 years, how many cases where the employee took their case to the IRC have updated their posts? In the event of no further updates, it can be safely assumed that they lost their case, right? So learning and copy and paste on their grounds may not be fruitful at all.

[ May I humbly suggest that you seek the services of an experienced IRC lawyer to continue with your case. ]

self-representation at Industrial Court Trial

Based on your premise that IRC is a "Trial Court" is not correct.
The IRC is an Arbitration Court.
Oso known as Tribunal Court
It is also a reconciliation court between Employer and Employee.

It may also mean that you do not understand the court systems.
You "may" have already lost in round 1 by the lack of understanding of HR and IRC Laws and court procedures.

 
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answered on Sep 21, 2021 at 21:20
by  
Hi Archie

What was your purpose of going to the Industrial Court of Malaisiya?

What are you seeking? Constructive Dismissal compensation or the company have short pay you not according to your employment contract?

In Thailand, it is known as  Mediation Court and it is for many types of civil cases, not only with regards to Employer and Employee relationships.
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answered on Sep 22, 2021 at 07:32
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edited Sep 22, 2021 at 07:51
by   archie
<May I humbly suggest that you seek the services of an experienced IRC lawyer to continue with your case.> 
Hi Jeff, I believe no non-lawyer would ever want to go through the legal process themselves. But when you are struggling with rent and remain jobless after a year, you will do what you have to do yourself. And yea I have approached legal aid and brought all the documents they wanted and the only advice I got was : "yea, you just proceed with everything you showed us and submit it". 

 <In the event of no further updates, it can be safely assumed that they lost their case, right?>
I believe you were one of the strongest champion for self representation, and the case I referred to was a lady who won despite everyone telling her to hire a lawyer ( everyone except you). Reference is about looking at the format and layout of the submission. I don't think one can copy paste content since every case is unique no? Anyway... no worries. Thanks Jeff for responding. 

@Tanavaroot, I filed an unfair dismissal claim against my ex-company. Been almost a year and after conciliation, my case was referred to industrial court. The case mention was a few months back and we have been assigned to a court date for the hearing. I am trying to get some ideas of what will take place during the hearing so I can be prepared.  I went through the Industrial court documents and process flow but there were no reference to hearing process other than who goes first and end with a written submission. ( i may get the terminology wrong).  
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answered on Sep 22, 2021 at 11:56
by  
edited Sep 22, 2021 at 12:11
by   jeff005
@ archie

First of all, is this case related to the case that you had posted last year?
Ref :  
Contract For Service: Contract Was Renewed but Company Issued Early Termination One Month after Renewal
253 Views  ⚫  Asked 1 Year Ago

I was fully flabbergasted  that it was not replied despite that you have send /posted the contract of service.

The only thingy I can think of is that it did not show up in my screen. Note this :

answered on Sep 10, 2020 at 14:46
by   
archie
edited May 15, 2021 at 21:31

There was an edit by the system 9 months later, could mean that it was missing from the main posts. That also accounts for the low "views". As this topic contents actually attracts high readers view, a period backups by the systems may have activated the possible error but nevertheless, remains in Sep2020.

It is not your error, neither mine, i would peruse thru this previous post if it is related to your current post and will reply where appropriate.

(to be continued)
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answered on Sep 22, 2021 at 13:35
by  
@ archie

one of the strongest champion for self representation
i,m surprised that there are still readers interested in my posts.
Yes, was and still is advocating self representing, that is, if one really do not have the funds to engage a lawyer. There is no other choice.. right?

But the past is the past, I would not advise people to self represent unless it is a last resort due to financial difficulties. Not many self representors won as can be seen from those bankruptcy cases. One can win at that point of time due to technical errors by the other side, but still can be a 3rd or even 4th bankruptcy if the bank is not willing to let go.

It is very easy to self represent, just file in court.
To win or lose depends on the merits of your case.
One must read a lot and understand basic laws in order to fight in own case.
One should apply Sun Tze's "The Art of War" to apply it to lawsuits.
I did, after intensive readings and understanding.
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answered on Sep 22, 2021 at 18:06
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edited Sep 22, 2021 at 19:52
by   jeff005
@ archie

the case I referred to was a lady who won despite everyone telling her to hire a lawyer ( everyone except you).

She did not win. (if we are on the same case, same page).

This is the only IRC case where all the docs were posted online here.
It was her lawyers that started the IRC case.
She was given the impression that she can get 24 months for unfair dismissal.
One senior forumer here suggested that she can get 12 months.

I was in contact privately all the time.

I told her that if she is lucky if she can get 2 months additional compensation. She was terminated legally and properly according to EA 1955. She was compensated accordingly and she may have signed something that stated she would not make further claims during her last payment and last day of work.

During her initial case, she was offered 2 months additional compensation but her lawyer rejected the offer. Her case was deferred for nearly 2 years, how come? On what grounds?

The last hearing (no more postponement), her lawyer discharged himself from the case and left her in the lurch? Why? Because she no longer have anymore savings and cannot afford the continuous demands for fees. IRC fees (lawyers) is not cheap. The carrot of 24 or 12 months is both attractive to her.

Her background
At those IRC hearings, she has to postpone because of critical ill health.
She is a cancer survivor at that point of time and have relapses during those hearings. She has no family, she is alone, living in a god forsaken place in rural area, no more monies for lawyers fees. She cannot even afford to perform a trip to the IRC hearing by herself. She could not even walk up any stairs or take long trips, she can collapse anytime, anyplace, anywhere.

Somehow, the ex employers lawyers contacted her once her lawyer discharged himself from the case. The offer of 2 months still exist. She took the offer. She only told me after the moneys was received and the case was withdrawn.

So, she did not win that case.
It was out of court settlement.
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answered on Sep 24, 2021 at 04:16
by  
edited Sep 24, 2021 at 04:26
by   archie
I was fully flabbergasted  that it was not replied despite that you have send /posted the contract of service.
@jeff005

yes it's the same case. 

No problem. It was a busy covid season when I posted back then. No worrries. 

https://www.lawyerment.com/answers/questions/12897/retrenchment-due-to-restructuring-representing-myself-in-industrial-court?g=10#tab-top

This case that I referred as thats the only SOC I can find online & since its crafted by lawyers, it makes a valid reference. I have also added more stuff relevant to my case. 
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answered on Sep 25, 2021 at 00:07
by  
edited Sep 25, 2021 at 00:22
by   jeff005
@ archie

Personal opinions (non-legal).

The Contract Signed :

1.  It is one "Outsourced Services Contract", not Employer /Employee employment contract. Independent Contractor is correctly termed.

2.  The "Termination Clause" is lopsided. Note the clause " The company may terminate the Agreement immediately" and clause (ix). There is no specific termination period stated unlike employment contract. Since it was accepted for 1 whole year and has been re-signed/renewed, it is deemed that you have accepted the policy of reporting daily to the company premises as an official place of work.

(Example of outsourced services for cleaning/tea lady/security services - their place of work is at the office premises and time of reporting in to work is earlier than regular staff. It does not make them full time employees).

3. It is my personal interpretation that any legal recourse should be "Breach of Contract" filed under Civil Courts. If the Labor Court and/or IRC accepts your filings, there should have been some merits in your case.

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