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Settlement of a 14 year-old bank debt

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asked on Jul 4, 2020 at 21:12
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edited on Jun 5, 2021 at 21:48
 
I received a call from Aiqon company claimed that Ambank had sold off my credit card debt of 14 years to them. There was no communication between the bank & me for 14 years. The amount owed as I remembered was around RM2k & the card limit was around RM3k. Now they are asking for RM50K. I really just want to settle the amount & move on, so I negotiated with them to come up a reasonable amount. I am jobless right now & since end of last year. I would like to know what is the lowest amount I should be paying to settle off the debt & how I can negotiate with these people? How does the Limitations Act apply in my case?
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answered on Jul 9, 2020 at 10:20
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 19:39
 
@Keribang

For your info.. the late @Abu Ammar birthday is today. Do send a note to his widow and the two children, boy and girl.

@Abu Amar and I were great friends, we did exchange notes and ideas and met years ago. He shared with me all about the perils of hire purchase contracts of motor vehicle and how to deal with it.
His passing was on 31st August 2019. This is why 31st August was mentioned in one of this morning post. 31st August has many memories in my Life. This is also the date when I officially joined Lawyerment under a registered Q&A User.
He was just about to join Lawyerment as an author before he lost his eyes. Very sad that we lost him thru cancer of the retina.

@Abu Amar and I have shared several cases before. One notable case was a very young girl who had intended to commit suicide due to extreme harassment from several debt collectors in Kedah. It was his case. @Abu Amar contacted me because the girl was living/hiding in fear in Cyberjaya. The debt collectors also found her there and the debt collectors had made attempts to contact her in her newly joined company. She wanted to commit suicide to make life insurance claims to "clear" her debts and the balance to her aging parents. I found her, read her court documents, and told her she should be already a bankrupt (based on dates of her Creditor's Petition)  and her estate is under Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia. End of the story is now she is working overseas (at last update to me 2 years ago). I had advised her to report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia and she did. NOTE: This  is not documented in Lawyerment.
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answered on Jul 10, 2020 at 03:43
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 19:48
 
@Keribang

Make counter offers etc. Since you can't pay the RM15k due to current situation, ask again for reduction & a payment plan. Something you're comfortable with.

Already tried, they said it's okay I don't pay. They will proceed to file Judgement. 

On the flip side, if you can't negotiate, and since this is a so-called established debt collector, you sue them instead for harassment. But that requires fund and more difficult to do.

I might have to do that when left with no choice.

@jeff005

Debt collectors also found her there and the debt collectors had made attempts to contact her in her newly joined company

She shifted away but found? Any idea how she was found? 

she should be already a bankrupt (based on dates of her C.P.)

May I know what's C.P? If she was declared bankrupt, won't her life insurance be cancelled & cashed out to pay her debts? How long does it take to get to bankruptcy upon judgment being filed? 

She is working overseas

Good to hear she had made it through difficult times & doing well. I may not be so lucky. 
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answered on Jul 13, 2020 at 21:22
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 19:49
 
@Helpmeplease,

May I know what's C.P?

Bankruptcy Proceedings:-

1. Notice of Bankruptcy  (N.K. - Notis Kebankrapan).
Purpose: Creditor is going to bankrupt you if you do not pay the whole outstanding debt within 7-14 days.

2. C.P. (Creditor Petition)
Final Stage
Note: 2 or more banks can join up to make up the RM50K.
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answered on Jul 13, 2020 at 21:40
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 19:59
 
@Helpmeplease,



You answered on Jul 10, 2020 at 03:43. A sign of stress posting at 4am (Friday morning) Not working in the morning?

By now, you should calm down. You have learned enough to deal with your problem.

I still need these (if you want more answers):-
1. Judgement Debt the (Judgement in Default - JID) that made you a Judgement Debtor (if any).
2. Timeline of the debt and/or other debts.
3. Methodology of avoiding the debt collectors.

I think you did the same thing for 18 years so the methodology should be similar.
How and what do you know about me?
I tried to evade debt collectors with 2 wives and 5 children for 14 years..!! You with a wife and 2 young kids. That's a big difference..!! Yet, they find me occasionally. It is 20 years now. I'm still waiting for them to bankrupt me. No issues for me. Report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia and pay RM100 per month due to retirement and being unemployed for the past 9 years (Proof: No EPF & SOCSO since then), after a few months, apply for discharge on medical grounds and/or stop paying..!!

Bankruptcy law states a bankrupt must report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia. I will report in and start the case management for 3 years. Not working due to medical grounds, no money, how to pay the Jabatan Insolvensi for the instalments? Can my creditors squeeze blood out of stone? Making me homeless is bad enough. Maybe I may camp outside Jabatan Insolvensi's nearest office.
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answered on Jul 13, 2020 at 22:26
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 20:01
 
@Helpmeplease,

If she was declared bankrupt, won't her life insurance be cancelled & cashed out to pay her debts?
1. Nobody can cancel a Term Life Insurance Policy.
2. Only the Policy Holder can cancel or be cancelled by the insurance company for non-renewal or payment of premiums.
3. Term Life Insurance on Death by SUICIDE will be paid subject to the conditions stated inside the policy. And most important, the policy must be in force for minimum of 13 months. If one wants to die and the beneficiaries to claim insurance payment, die after the 13th month.
4. The sum insured will be paid to the estate of a bankrupt (cheque send to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia).

Other General Conditions specified by the Insurers:
5. Death by suicide must be instantaneous due to the "suicide".
6. Death due to consumption of drugs or chemicals is highly debatable and contestable as in some instances, a death seeker may end up in comatose and later die in hospital. The coroner may stated " Death by drugs overdose" and is not death by suicide. Well, there will be a big fight in court..!!
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answered on Jul 14, 2020 at 00:55
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edited Jun 8, 2021 at 17:02
 
@jeff005,

Not working in the morning?
From my initial post, I did state I am jobless since last year. Can't sleep since the whole nightmare started. 

How and what do you know about me?
I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention. Knowing nothing was what brought me to this forum in the 1st place. 

Bankruptcy law states a bankrupt must report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia.
What if I am unaware that I am declare bankrupt & failed to report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia? What happens after 3 years? 
If I report to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia but can't find work, what happens after 3 years? 

4. The sum insured will be paid to the estate of a bankrupt (cheque send to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia).
It means coffin money goes to Jabatan Insolvensi too.
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answered on Jul 14, 2020 at 23:36
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edited Jun 8, 2021 at 20:13
 
@Helpmeplease

I am sorry if I offended you
No worries.. if I feel offended, I would not be writing any further comments. What you have asked so far are real Questions faced by real people in distress.

I did state I am jobless since last year
This is one of the proof that you are not a bank or Aiqon operative, isn't it? Personally I do not believe, a debt collector would read up early and reply early in the morning. Only people who were stressed up by debt collectors could understand those who would be in the same dilemma and cannot sleep well. Stress kills..!!

What if I am unaware that I am declare bankrupt & failed to report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia?
Nothing happens until you find out.
Different scenario if you attend the last hearing and know about the bankruptcy if there is a "fight" or have engaged a lawyer. Then you cannot claim that you are not in the loop and deny accountability.
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answered on Jul 14, 2020 at 23:47
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edited Jun 8, 2021 at 20:19
 
@Helpmeplease

What happens after 3 years? 
You remain as a bankrupt until you have reported in. All blacklisting remains including overseas travel and application for a passport denied.

If I report to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia but can't find work, what happens after 3 years?
I believe I have answered this in my earlier post. Read properly again.
If a bankrupt cannot meet the criteria of having paid 50% of the total Proof of Debts amount, any application for discharged will be denied. One would remain as a bankrupt until a Bankruptcy Discharge application is successful. Nothing much happens, life goes on the same as a bankrupt after 3 years.

It means coffin money goes to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia too
Not exactly though if the sum insured is more than the bankruptcy amount. Any balance will be given back to the beneficiaries. In any case, all payments made by a bankrupt to Jabatan Insolvensi to be credited to the the Proof of Debt Creditor's account, Jabatan Insolvensi will charge the creditor of around 13% as fees to maintain the operations of the Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia Agency.

With the amendments of the following:-
Bankruptcy 2017 amount to RM50K
50% settlement of all Proof of Debts
The amended Limitations Act 2018 in favor of banks
The approval of debts selling 

My personal opinion is...

The pendulum is starting to swing in a dangerous direction..
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answered on Jul 15, 2020 at 12:53
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edited Jun 9, 2021 at 01:53
 
You remain as a bankrupt until you have reported in.
If a bankrupt cannot meet the criteria of having paid 50% of the total Proof of Debt amount, any application for discharged will be denied.
One would remain as a bankrupt until a Bankruptcy Discharge application is successful


Either way, it means I'll remain a bankrupt till I'm dead with my current situation. Please do not think I'm being sarcastic. It is the truth. 

The pendulum is starting to swing in a dangerous direction..
Can't really do anything except to accept & expect what will be coming. I really have nothing to offer except the clothes on my back. If I have a job, an asset or little bit of money to turn the situation around, I wouldn't end up in this forum. Living already is hard enough now.
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answered on Jul 17, 2020 at 06:45
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edited Jun 9, 2021 at 01:53
 
@Helpmeplease

I'm dead with my current situation. Please do not think I'm being sarcastic.

There is no karkarism in debt traps. Everybody is affected emotionally. Things can improve for the better after this Covid-19 pandemic is over.

Most important is that you are not longer groping in the dark.
You know what rights you have and know how to deal with it should Aiqon finds you again. Generate a new email address and ask them to communicate via email. Then factor down any new "offers" within your disposable income. Then you are in a stronger position to negotiate.  Now is a bad time when you are unemployed. Next time, you are holding a better set of cards.

Come back to this forum when negotiations is in the pipeline. I will offer new directions if I'm still alive and can read the screen posts. Nobody at my age with health problems can predict the future. @Abu Ammar could not see and read during the last period of his life and he is 10 years younger than me.

Such is life for some...
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