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Settlement of a 14 year-old bank debt

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asked on Jul 4, 2020 at 21:12
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edited on Jun 5, 2021 at 21:48
 
I received a call from Aiqon company claimed that Ambank had sold off my credit card debt of 14 years to them. There was no communication between the bank & me for 14 years. The amount owed as I remembered was around RM2k & the card limit was around RM3k. Now they are asking for RM50K. I really just want to settle the amount & move on, so I negotiated with them to come up a reasonable amount. I am jobless right now & since end of last year. I would like to know what is the lowest amount I should be paying to settle off the debt & how I can negotiate with these people? How does the Limitations Act apply in my case?
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 16:50
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edited Jun 5, 2021 at 21:48
 
@Helpmeplease,

fighting their case based on discrepancies instead of settling on a lower payment to settle. I think my confusion is at this area.
It is a relief to me that you have read and assessed correctly.

If there is a further "fight" in a new lawsuit, there is apparently a miscarriage of Justice. It does happen in Magistrate Courts as have in the past.

Any "fight" is on the "interests element" rather than avoiding a "sold" debt.

So, the date of the any Judgement Debt can be of help.
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 17:02
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 01:17
 
@jeff005

So, the date of the any Judgement Debt can be of help.

Does this mean that Aiqon will be able to file a judgement due to miscarriage of justice? despite the previous file by another debt collector? Sorry I do not get this. 
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 17:16
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 01:20
 
@Helpmeplease,

Normally I do not indulged in debt litigations anymore. It does relive my past altercations with debt collectors and misery.
It is your profile that speaks volume...

Sorry was dealing with Aiqon this whole morning.
The more you do it, it only show your weakness and is scared. How to negotiate?
Debt collectors love to capitalize on debtors weaknesses.

You should have been on the "run" for 14 years avoiding them. I, stupidly, done it for 18 years of my good life, now exhausted. I need to know your methodology of your "running" and timeline of the debt. If the banks cannot find you, as in the past, it is also not easy to find you again unless you have left enormous digital trace to the debt collectors. But can you run forever? Blacklisting is already there by the banks.

How did Aiqon find you?
Plug that damned hole..!!
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 17:32
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 01:27
 
@Helpmeplease

Does this mean that Aiqon will be able to file a judgement due to miscarriage of justice?

Personal opinions:

The miscarriage of justice is based on 2 grounds.

1. There cannot be a 2nd Judgement Order on the same debt.
2. The interests element shown in the picture above. There is also a Limitation Period of 6 years that the bank can charge interests. Your RM2K should not exceed RM50K at all.
3. The bank can execute other modes of recovery on the Judgement Order issued to them as Judgement Creditor like Writ of Seizure and Sale, Garnishment Order of Bank account, Bankruptcy proceedings. Aiqon has to make a Judgement Creditor FIRST... (because it is a new creditor).

Interpretation of laws can vary from person to person. This is my personal perspective unless some lawyers lurking inside here can teach all of us some new tricks taking into account "Vesting Order" is something new in Malaysia.
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 17:38
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 01:28
 
The more you do it, it only show your weakness and is scared. How to negotiate?
Debt collectors love to capitalize on Debtors weaknesses.


Can’t deny I am scared cause I am alone & worried that if I can't settle this once & for all, I had to go through the harassment again or running again.

You should have been on the "run" for 14 years avoiding them. I need to know your methodology of your "running" and timeline of the debt. But can you run forever? Blacklisting is already there by the banks.

Yes, I have been running for 14 years & also exhausted. I think you did the same thing for 18 years so the methodology should be similar. As for the timeline, I have emailed some updates I got. Blacklisting does not bother me as I know I had been blacklisted for 14 years. I just want to know can this case drag me into bankruptcy. 

Plug that damned hole..!!

Yes, just did it today. 
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answered on Jul 7, 2020 at 22:19
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 01:23
 
                     Sample Application for a VESTING ORDER

         (For discussion purposes. Courtesy from @Keribang )
                    (Image Property of Lawyerment) 

https://www.lawyerment.com/answers/questions/13770/forewarning-cimb-selling-debts-to-debts-collector-aiqon?g=2#tab-top



Many Thanks to @Keribang for sharing the above image.

Cheers..!!
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answered on Jul 8, 2020 at 11:07
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edited Jun 6, 2021 at 22:48
 
@Helpmeplease

I just want to know can this case drag me into bankruptcy.
Personally, for your case, I do not think it can be drag into bankruptcy given your circumstances. What you get is just "Intimidation" and "Harassment" by phone calls. There are a few holes in your case whereby it would not reach that stage. But it does not mean it will be debt free, you can still be responsible for "part" of the debt. It is just that you have to identify your strength and your weakness. Whereas for your case, Aiqon has actually less advantage when it comes to a lawsuit against you.

I need what is inside any Judgement Debt levied on you. You may invoke laws of torts, laws of bankruptcy in your fight (if any). Not all is lost.

It is no longer easy for banks to Bankrupt people under the Bankruptcy Act 2017. But it has also help the banks with some amendments to the Limitation Act 2018.

Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. After Bankruptcy Discharge for some, it is a second lease of life, a second chance to progress wishfully and wisely. In any case, a rich bankrupt is better than a poor bankrupt if one can consolidate the remaining resources wisely. There is no logic in being stuck under any blacklisting. Given your age group of below 50, educated, appropriate work experiences, there is always a second lease of life. And the amount is not large.
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answered on Jul 8, 2020 at 12:25
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 05:03
 
@jeff005,

But it does not mean it will be debt free, you can still be responsible for "part" of the debt.

I totally agree, this is reason why I want to take ownership & settle off the debt even if it leaves me penniless. I do not mind paying a fair amount & leave me penniless. But the amount they are asking for will not only leave me penniless but with more debt, which I can't afford since debt was what got me in this predicament in the first place. 

From there is just that you have to identify your strength and your weakness. Whereas for your case, Aiqon has actually less advantage when it comes to a lawsuit against you.

Agreed, I had consulted a lawyer. Now I know where I stand & my legal rights. I now know how to deal with this. I rather pay for consultation than pay them.

There is no logic in being stuck under any blacklisting.

Yes, that's what bothered me right from the start as my main objective was to take ownership & settle off the debt but Aiqon, is not being reasonable.

Anyhow, I want to thank @willamchan @Keribang & @jeff005 that had replied & help me, especially @jeff005. Without your comments, I will be at a very dark place right now.
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answered on Jul 8, 2020 at 13:00
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 05:04
 
@Helpmeplease,

settle off the debt even if it leaves me penniless.
Seriously.. you have to keep one penny back for yourself, or else, how to piss off debt collectors?
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answered on Jul 9, 2020 at 08:37
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edited Jun 7, 2021 at 18:47
 
@helpmeplease
@jeff005

Sorry was very busy last few days. Lively discussions & I've learnt from them as well. I'm sure others (& probably some debt collection agents😁) learnt & benefit from this discussion as well.

Just sharing my thoughts here:

If you want to have peace of mind, and willing to pay, you can negotiate sampai lebam (to borrow the late @Abu Ammar words). Make counter offers etc. Since you can't pay the RM15k due to current situation, ask again for reduction & a payment plan. Something you're comfortable with.

I've been there with other debt collectors & banks in the past, but different case. Debt was not sold, still under the bank, they just get debt collectors to chase. If debt still under bank, you can get Bank Negara Malaysia involvements, but that's another story. I got payment plan, pay few hundreds a month for quite sometimes but eventually all settled. 

That's why I am against debt selling practices, even though it's legal. It reduces the debtor avenue thru institution like Bank Negara Malaysia, and if not sold, one can bypass the debt collector & go direct to the bank to negotiate.

On the flip side, if you can't negotiate, and since this is a so-called established debt collector, you sue them instead for harassment. But that requires fund and more difficult to do.

Just my 2 sen. 
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