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Recently made bankrupt but working overseas

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asked on Aug 1, 2019 at 14:47
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edited on Sep 28, 2019 at 20:18
 
My situation:

I am a Malaysian but working in another country for the past 3 years now. I discovered I was made bankrupt (mid July 2019) in Malaysia when I called Citibank regarding my credit card and they informed me I am of bankrupt status. I did an e-insolvensi search and confirmed I am of bankrupt status. I owe around RM300k to the institution who sued me for bankruptcy.

If all my other creditors (banks) file proof of debts, this would add in another roughly RM400k. So in total I have around RM700k debts in Malaysia.

I have no assets, no money in Malaysia, am divorced too. But I want to come back to Malaysia one day to take care and spend time with my mum who is old and not so healthy now.

My dilemma or rather actions which I would appreciate your views:
1. I decide not to come back to Malaysia yet to report to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia or else I won't be able to get out which means I will lose my job in the other country. Applying for Director General of Insolvency permission to travel out to continue my job will take time and I will have lost my job by then.

My plan to clear my Malaysia debts

Option 1. Save as much as I can and hopefully by end 2020, have enough money to come back, 'surrender' myself to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia and clear my debts and then apply for discharge.

Option 2. By early 2021 , I turn 55 and have money in EPF that is more than my debts. Go to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia, request for permission to withdraw my EPF to be paid to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia and balance to me.

My questions:

1. Will I get into trouble if I ignore my bankruptcy and only report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia in 18 months time and settle fully my debts?

2. Will Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia try to find out where I am and come after me?

3. Do you think I can renew my Malaysia passport overseas in one of the Malaysia embassies? The Malaysia embassy in Hong Kong, Singapore and UK do have renewal services. The only issue is I'm not sure will the embassy databases be updated on my bankruptcy.

PS: Jeff, I met up with you once in 2015 in United Garden Old Klang road for tea in the afternoon to seek your advice on my situation back then. Hope you are fine and appreciate your advice again here too.

Thank you everybody for your views and pointing me to the right direction.
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answered on Aug 1, 2019 at 15:24
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edited Sep 28, 2019 at 23:14
 
@alexfai

The basic answers to your 3 questions above are:

(1)  No.. There is no serious offense for you when you are bankrupted while are not residing inside Malaysia for the past 12 months before bankruptcy proceedings.

(2)  No.. But your creditors might hire some Malaysian mercenaries to kidnap you back here.

(3)   All expired passports from this year have to come back to get a new Passport with new security features, no renewals at any Embassy. In any case, your bankruptcy status is already online with Embassy.

Jeff, I met up with you once in 2015
I am sorry if I cannot remember you as I have met more than a hundred times with so many people with bankruptcy, immigration and divorce issues.

Please forget what I have taught you 4 years ago. I have gained so much more experiences since 4 years ago from this forum that I should discard those old ones with more current informative and practical ones. I was real novice then..!! Wet behind my ears..
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answered on Aug 1, 2019 at 15:52
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edited Sep 28, 2019 at 23:31
 
@alexfai

Your proposed options are not so practical at the moment, but still there is some planning on your part (my personal view). If you can "tahan", wait for 3 years into bankruptcy and then ask for huge discounts settlement of your bankruptcy. Squeeze back their footballs..!!  RM700K no joke.. you can buy 3 bungalows with swimming pools in northern Thailand..!! You buy one, employ me as your caretaker for your harem..!!

@55 EPF withdrawal, you can take out 30% of what is in the EPF Joint Account.

You can fly your mom to Singapore or Hatyai, spend a week or so with her as a filial son. I am quite sure she would not want you to clear the RM700K just to visit her since you cannot leave your job overseas.

Since you do not have baggage with you, you should be applying for temporary  residency overseas. The only issue is that you must still have a valid passport (country to country basis). This you have to check very carefully.

You were just bankrupted recently.. it might not be online yet, why don't you try tomorrow to renew it for a specific purpose, some temporary short term "renewal"?
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answered on Aug 1, 2019 at 16:30
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edited Sep 28, 2019 at 23:33
 
@jeff - thanks for your fast response. Just to clarify:

1. At age 55, I can withdraw 100% of my Account as there is no money in Account 2 since I have been withdrawing every year from the 'excess of 1m' scheme.

2. You mentioned that since I have been bankrupted only recently it may not be online yet. Did you mean at the Malaysian Embassies overseas? I thought about it too. My passport is expiring only end 2021 but I have only 14 out of 50 pages left, which will last me only max 1.5 years due to the nature of my job which involves lots travelling. I can try to cook up some excuse to try get a renewed new passport at the embassy. In case my bankruptcy status is already online, do you think the embassy will then confiscate my passport?

3. My bankruptcy status will not prevent me from using my Malaysia passport for travelling between other countries right? After all I'm not a criminal or on Interpol blacklist.

Thanks again.
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answered on Aug 1, 2019 at 17:06
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edited Sep 28, 2019 at 23:43
 
@alexfai

'excess of 1m'
Wow.. You squandered banks to put inside EPF? Not joking, there are people who borrows cheap loans from Banks and hide it inside EPF and Tabung Haji for higher yields.

At age 55 I can withdraw 100% of my Account as there is no money in Account 2
@55 is for withdrawal from Account 2 only. Check carefully.

do you think the embassy will then confiscate my passport? 
Only at Malaysian Entry Points, Immigration can confiscate your passport. Embassies are not empowered to do so unless you have revoked your citizenship and that is not confiscate but "surrender" to Embassy.

Malaysian passport for travelling between other countries right?
Right.. why you travel so much? Still selling arms and ammunition? Bankruptcy is to catch you when you need to renew passport only.

Caution: Do not come back to Malaysia if your passport has expire more than 6 months. Be forewarned. Even Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia cannot override Immigration. Insolvency can ban travels overseas, Immigration Department can ban renewals for 2 years.



Jaga-jaga lor...
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answered on Aug 1, 2019 at 17:34
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edited Sep 29, 2019 at 17:03
 
@jeff

Thanks for the info on immigration laws. My biggest folly and mistake was living beyond my means hence the debts.

My biggest concern was if I don't come back for 2 years and report in to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia, file my statement of affairs etc, will I be punished or jailed for contempt of court when I eventually come back. This is the route that I have decided to take, not come back to Malaysia until I have saved enough money to pay in full to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia and start a new life with my EPF savings. I can't work anyway overseas when my passport run out of pages (max 1.5 to 2 years) as then my employer will know the reason why I can't get a new passport.
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answered on Aug 4, 2019 at 01:45
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General Notice



Take Note
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answered on Aug 4, 2019 at 18:20
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edited Sep 29, 2019 at 17:13
 
@alexfai

will I be punished or jailed for contempt of court when I eventually come back.
You will not be punished in any way. For "contempt of court", it is not applicable to you as you were already overseas when bankrupted. Those who can be jailed are for those who has attended court or used lawyers services, and when bankrupted, quickly flew overseas to hide. The law is clear-cut, once declared bankrupt, one cannot travel overseas. Once bankrupted @4pm, it starts straight away, didn't the lawyer advise him/her? Even if have left Malaysia days earlier before, the laws say once aware of Creditors Petitioning, one must attend. To hide or avoid bankruptcy proceedings is an offence, jailable.. It does not apply in your case.

I have saved enough money to pay in full to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia
You need not pay "in full". 50% of the "target contributions" completed, you can apply for a discharge. If the banks give you a big discount, you may end up paying only 30-40% of the total DEBTS. Bankruptcy is not to "kill" a debtor.

Then start a new life with your EPF savings. Never withdraw EPF to pay bankrupted debts. It is protected by labor laws. Creditors and Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia cannot touch it while it is inside EPF. Once withdrawn, it is a different story.

Almost all Foreign Employment Contract provides termination of contract on the basis of being adjudged a bankrupt. The latest one I have just read, even stated, that one can be terminated on the basis of being in "bankruptcy proceedings". Our Public Service Department Malaysia (PSD) / Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) does not terminate government servants on the basis of being a bankrupt, but can be transferred out and even can be demoted from "sensitive" work. This was told to me personally by one of the Naib Pengarah in PSD.

You can still work overseas, just get permission from Insolvency Department. Just don't run foul of immigration laws like expired passport. I shall work something out for you so that you can go back to work 3-4 weeks upon reporting in. With all documentation done before hand, with good luck and good karma, 2 weeks can be possible too.

Yes, you can liaise with your Official Assignee (OA) while still overseas, but will not get any extra details of any proof of debts until you have reported in personally. That is why I asked @Candyce if she has any other debts plus the state she was bankrupted. She can transfer her bankruptcy file to Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia Johor Bahru (if JB accepts). She did not reply me thinking I was asking silly questions.. This arrogance will bounce back to her.
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answered on Aug 5, 2019 at 11:40
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edited Sep 29, 2019 at 17:23
 
Many thanks @jeff005.
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answered on Aug 5, 2019 at 14:41
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edited Sep 29, 2019 at 21:41
 
Is it mandatory for a bankrupt to be employed to make the monthly payments after filing of Statement of Affairs? Can the monthly payments be paid by a family member on behalf of a bankrupt?

Thank you all.
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answered on Aug 5, 2019 at 16:51
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edited Sep 29, 2019 at 22:57
 
Please go and read the bankruptcy law to understand your own situation better.

Are you saying that those made bankrupted ceased to be employed? If not in gainful employment, how to pay monthly? Why report in in the first place, just as well go underground - be homeless.

Your ex-wife can also pay on your behalf via electronic transfer. So long as payments are made monthly on time, does it matter?
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