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My foreign wife wants to divorce with condition. Which option is best for me?

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asked on Aug 18, 2017 at 00:37
by   balflee
edited on Sep 25, 2017 at 11:37
 
My wife is Vietnamese and she is now 8 months pregnant but she wants to divorce. She offers me two options:

1. ONE is she leaves after give birth here, take the baby with her and let the child come back here for study later.
2. Second is let her go now and give birth in Vietnam and let the child study here later.

For both options, she wants me to pay alimony.

Actually I don't want to divorce and let them leave me alone, I feel sad but if this happens, I want to know what's best for the baby.

I want my kid to study in Malaysia, and hold a Malaysia citizenship. Which option is the best for my wish?
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9 Answers

answered on Aug 18, 2017 at 06:07
by   jeff005
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 03:38
 
ONE is she leaves after give birth here, take the baby with her and let the child come back here for study later.
Liar, she will never let the baby to come back in the future. And once she finds a better man than you, she would let the kid rot on the streets as homeless. You ever been to Vietnam? Ever see all those homeless abandoned street kids? That is their culture!

Second is let her go now and give birth in Vietnam and let the child study here later.
Which airline would carry a 8 months pregnant woman?

For both options, she wants me to pay alimony.
Hahaha.. She married you for your money....!!!

I want to know what's best for the baby
Fight as a Man, as a Father, a Ferocious Tiger for your child!

Actually I don't want to divorce and let them leave me alone
Why lonely? You can live without a woman but without your child, what are you?

I want my kid to study in Malaysia, and hold a Malaysia citizenship.
Questions:
1. Legally married? Registered marriage at both country's Embassies?
2. With the passing of 2 years can only divorce.
3. Plan well before she give birth or else you may lose any custody of the child the moment she gives birth!
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answered on Aug 18, 2017 at 11:55
by   balflee
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 03:42
 
Hi jeff005,

Thanks for your reply. 

First I need to clarify, I did not "buy" her as wife, we know each other for year, fell in love and get married. We just realized she's pregnant few days before registration. Besides, her family is richer than mine, I even owe her mom money for the house renovation.

I am telling this to let you know I actually know her. She won't let the kid homeless, as her family was abandoned by her father when she was kid. She hates her father and thus she won't do the same.

VietnamAirline allows women with 32 weeks pregnancy abroad without medical clearance, and it is not difficult to get the medical clearance at all. Somemore, the airline ground staff might not even check if seeing her belly is small.

She asks for alimony as she cannot work now and does not want to bother her mom much, that's what I understand.

And yes we're legally registered in Malaysia, but haven't register in Vietnam. 

1. If less than two years of marriage, no way to divorce? Now I just worry she runs away from home. If she run away then what should I do?

2. How to ensure I will get the custody? What should I do and plan now?

Thanks.
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answered on Aug 18, 2017 at 15:21
by   jeff005
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 03:48
 
@baflee

Personal opinions (non-legal):

Note: I advocate mediation, reconciliation plus joint custody (JD) for child.

1. What did you do for the possible breakdown of the marriage?
2. Go for reconciliation thru mediation, perhaps with the help of her mother.
3. You are in a very nasty situation as she may "run" home. You have to really calm down, pacify her and agree to all conditions (for the time being). Watch her movements!

Important Notes:
4. Have photostat copies of her passport.
5. The divorce will be after 2 years of registered marriage. Let her file for divorce since her family can afford it. If you want joint custody, you must NEVER NEVER file for divorce or agreed to the divorce (now say okay), can split after the 2 years and after the birth of the child. In short, have to 100% contest the divorce.
6. Register at Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara (JPN) with the marriage certificate with you as the FATHER. Once registered, she has no way to bring the child out of Malaysia LEGALLY without your consent. The control is that she MUST give birth in Malaysia. Say YES MA'AM to most requests from her... JUST DO IT!
7. Do not register the birth at Vietnam Embassy.
8. Repeat.. DO NOT.
9. DO NOT apply for passport for the child.

Do take into account that she is away from home and advanced pregnancy. She could be suffering from depression. Get her gynecologist to check her out properly. A few months later, she may fall in love with you again? Be patient! Pregnant women is like that.

What did you like her for?
What did she like you for?
Date her again and share a happy family..
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answered on Aug 19, 2017 at 00:37
by   balflee
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 03:55
 
@jeff005

I realized she has depression lately, she even threatens me that she will kill herself one day if continue to stay like this.

She is now crying day by day, keeps herself in the room, doesn't talk to anyone even me, doesn't want to see me. She says she staying in a jail, but she is the one who declines me whenever I ask her go out for shopping, cinema, short trip.

And yes, I am trying hard to fulfill all her requests now, but there is one thing I can't do and she repeats everyday: let her go home now. Sigh...

1. Why must I have her passport copies?
2. She won't file the divorce, she told me she will simply leave Malaysia for good, as we didn't register in Vietnam, she is still single in Vietnam.
3. Yes she agrees to give birth in Malaysia... at the moment. Hope she can keep the promise.

I want to prepare for worst case,
1. What should I do if she runs away?
2. After giving birth, can she register the birth at the Vietnam Embassy by herself without me?
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answered on Aug 19, 2017 at 04:39
by   jeff005
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 04:17
 
Dear Balflee

You are dealing with a very delicate situation. She needs medical attention or else it might affect the babe in the future.

1. Why must I have her passport copies?
In the event she goes missing, within 24 hours, you must alert all major airlines and International airports of missing depressive pregnant lady. Circulate by hand complete with police reports and fax out. She might go to friends and hide till next plane. If she is very smart use transit flights. But her condition now, she may not be clear minded.

she told me she will simply leave Malaysia for good, as we didn't register in Vietnam, she is still single in Vietnam.
Documents can be up dated, if needed to do.

2. After giving birth, can she register the birth at the Vietnam Embassy by herself without me?
This part I am not sure as different consulars have slightly different policies. Legally speaking, cannot, but who knows. Since she mentioned that she is is still single in Vietnam, she may not attempt to register her child there. The reason I ask you not to register the child birth yet is that she may secure exit papers for the child. Once you have registered your name as Father in the birth certificate, the embassy official will not issue her exit papers for the child. But hanky panky things can happened. Just plugging all exit routes. Once you have a proper marriage certificate, your child will be listed as Malaysian Citizen by Constitutional Laws in the birth certificate. Then Vietnam Embassy will not issue EXIT travel docs for child.

By the way, what Visa/Visit pass is she holding now now? When expire? It should be Long-Term Social Visit Pass (LTSVP). DO NOT RENEW yet if you anticipate a divorce coming your way!

Young man, you are dealing with a depressive lady.. be tactful and mindful of your words and actions. Get Support Groups.

Questions:
1. What languages she speaks? Mandarin?
2. You speak mandarin?
3. She got friends in Malaysia?

If you are living in Old Klang road KL, there is a garden where there is a large park where there are many Vietnam, Laos Cambodians house wives. They support each other during their child bearing period and they sort of group together and speak their own lingo. Perhaps near your place, find such support groups. It can/may help her tremendously.

She may need Professional Psychiatrist help and medication. Do not underestimate depression due to pregnancy. It may last for years!
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answered on Aug 19, 2017 at 11:58
by   balflee
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 04:33
 
Yes delicate situation, exactly. I am an engineer and my work is always so stressful, usually when I am home I just want to relax but now I have to deal with her depression and care for family members. Not only her, soon I feel myself will need medication as well. I just hope this two months can pass faster.

1. I have scanned copy of her passport, I can print as many as possible if needed.

2. What kind of documentation to be updated?

3. Okay, so I will need to get Malaysian birth certificate issued as soon as possible.

4. Something to be added in this delicate situation, she has not getting her LTSVP yet. It is still in processing and she got her Special Pass for one month now. I just worry she doesn't want to follow me to immigration office later. 

5. Do not renew for any specific purpose?

6. Language is one of the thing making her stress. She speaks English, but not fluent English. She has low self confidence and thus always worry others don't understand her, not dare to speak much to others except me. I was trying to encourage her to be more confident, but now she telling me I am stressing her out.

7. I can speak Mandarin.

8. I will not say they are friends, just know each other and did not contact for few months now as I know. And if you are talking about Vietnam friends in Malaysia, I believe no. But once she mentioned to me, her mom's best friend is living in Malaysia now.

9. I am living in Seremban. I want to take care of her more if possible but the situation now is a bit tricky. She won't follow me to hospital unless for pregnancy check up. I can only contact her mom through Facebook but she has the account access and blocked me. She was crying heavily that time I tried to contact her mom, she warned me not do so it again. Ask her to arrange her mom to visit her, she said her mom is busy... sigh!

I regretted making her pregnant. She was such a good girl before. I prefer to have a partner that last till the end, not a child. That time she even got the job offer, but due to pregnancy she has to decline. So she worries about my financial situation as she cannot support me. But the hardest part is she keeps saying she doesn't love me more. Feel so sad hearing it everyday now.

In fact, I noticed she changed 2 months into pregnancy. She keeps crying and saying she misses her mom. So I let her go back to home for 5 months. Now she is just staying in Malaysia 3 weeks time, and we have 8 more weeks to go, not to say her confinement month. She agrees to go back after confinement... with the baby.
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answered on Aug 28, 2017 at 20:37
by   jeff005
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 04:57
 
@ balflee

Below is some excerpts from the email you have send me. I re-post here is for the benefit of others who may have the same predicament.

1. The law is clear cut. If there is a missing person from your home, there must be reported within 24 hours. For children below 10, within 4 hours. Activate "NUR" rescue. This is the best option.

Do things legally and play safe. If she runs away from home in a depressive condition and met with an unfortunate accident, and in her dying breath she tells people she ran away from home because her husband abused her and the child, you could wait for a potential jail term!

2. Her visa valid til 24 September. I already bought her the ticket to her hometown on 25 December.
Comments, if you do not renew now she would have overstay and if she goes to the airport, she would be detained and sent to Detention Camps, where she would charged for overstaying, fines plus possibly a 3-5 years ban from coming into Malaysia. She cannot come but maybe her mother will come and trash you up for keeping the child just for yourself.

3. She has no chance of taking the child out of border without my permission.
Solution, do not make passport for for child. The mother of any child does not need anybody permission to take her child out of the country.

4. Her mom will be here for a month during her confinement.
Try to get your mother-in-law to pacify her and start life afresh as a family. After a few months her depression will decline with the birth of the child and preoccupied taking care of baby. You may gain a child but loses your woman. Life is like that!

5. If she leaves, can I immediate cancel the visa sponsorship? Is this against the law as I read your reply in another post?
She can come in under Social Visit Pass for 30 days only on her own accord.

6. If she stays and acts crazy, what should I do? Call the police? Ask her to leave the house? I don't want to become cruel husband like the Singapore case lately...
This is very subjective and I do not want to comment.

Every child is entitle to their parents. Best is to work things out with mediators, especially with the help of your mother-in-law. During this depressive period, the hostility is maybe towards YOU only. To others, she is an angel. These are the traits of depression. There is a Trigger and always a Target.

7. Marriage is the graveyard of love, so true.
Marriage is the absolute art or skill of givings and takings. Unfortunately, for some, there is also depression to deal with. My sympathies, but you are far better off than me I had 4 police reports lodged against me for spouse abuse, 1 court Interim Protection Order (IPO), 1 Restraining Order and I permanent Molestation Injunction filed in the High Court. There were 2 High Court cases. Luckily, with the advice from good people in this forum, I won both cases and still have Joint Custody of my son.

For your case, be patient and never slap or hit her even under physical attack, just run for your life. Never retaliate physically. Men are always losers in court! Women can hit you, even knife you and get away from it.  For man, do it, get a jail term and loses any Custody of the child (even an 1 hour Visitations right also cannot get).

Under these stressful situations, control your temper.
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answered on Aug 31, 2017 at 18:26
by   jeff005
edited Sep 26, 2017 at 06:55
 
@ balflee  

Below is some excerpts from the email you have sent me. I re-post here is for the benefit of others who may have the same predicament.

1. If you do not renew now she would have overstayed and if she goes to the airport, she would be detained and sent to Detention Camps, where she would be charged for overstaying, fines plus possibly a 3-5 years ban from coming into Malaysia. She cannot come but maybe her mother will come and trash you up for keeping the child just for yourself.

Honestly, I never thought of this until you pointed out. It sounds cruel but might be efficient in keeping her out of my family. Is it legal doing so? I may consider this but quite unlikely to do so as this simply mean things go to the worst direction.

2. Try to get your mother-in-law to pacify her and start life afresh as a family. After a few months, her depression will decline with the birth of the child and preoccupied taking care of baby. You may gain a child but loses your woman. Life is like that!

OK, I'll add this into my plan as well but actually I'm giving up to have her in family at the moment. I simply cannot trust her now. Things changed and my thinking changed, from sad to calm, from love to hate, from care to ignore, from trust to no trust. I will keep worrying her running away with the baby. She keeps on talking about the money and alimony made me suspect her sickness & purpose. 

At first, I do not mind letting her bring the baby to Vietnam if she can prove to me that she is able to take good care of the baby but now I worry she will threaten me with the baby from time to time for the money. She changed to the person I do not know now. I start to think she is no different from other Vietnamese girls. Too bad. 

I'm planning to go Negeri Sembilan Bar Committee to seek for the legal advice for:

1. How to apply for single petition once my wife back to Vietnam?
2. If we bring this case to the court (either by me or her), what's my winning percentage?
3. If she got the custody, is it possible for her to take the baby out of country? If yes, can I stop the alimony then?
4. How to determine the amount of alimony? How if I am not able to pay alimony?
5. In case I let baby live with her, and we do not go to court but would like to have a mutual agreement on alimony and divorcement. How do I ensure she won't use the kid to threaten me for more money in future?
6. Can I apply for Nullity of marriage? We registered on March, 2 weeks after she asked me to let her go back Vietnam because she misses her mom. No choice, I let her go as she was crying non-stop that time. 4.5 months later, I took her to Malaysia from Vietnam again. Within 2 weeks she requested me to let her go back again. I begged her but she asked for divorce. After marriage, we have no sex and sleep separately (I sleep on floor) as she says she doesn't love me anymore and cannot sleep with me. I think she did not fulfill her responsibility as a wife.
7. Can I apply injunction to prevent my wife from taking the baby out without my acknowledgement? If so, how to apply?
8. Can I cancel her visa sponsorship once she leave Vietnam (without baby)? Is this against any clauses in Family law? (Yes, I know she can apply for a visa on her own accord on monthly basis, just want to ensure I am not doing things against the law)
9. How to ensure my baby is Malaysian only, no dual citizenship?
10. In case, I give up my baby and let her has full custody in exchange of having her sign on the divorce paper without requesting any penny from me. Can she take the case to the court in future and request for alimony again?
11. In case, I won the custody, can I ask alimony from her? How to ensure she will pay while she is not living here?

I know I may have too many questions cause of my poor knowledge of law. If you happen to know any answer (or having comment) for any in the above, please highlight to me. I will check with the bar committee.

My reply:

1. How to apply for single petition once my wife back to Vietnam?
You cannot now as she would not be able to receive the Divorce Petition. After 2 years marriage, either spouse can petition for divorce or Joint Mutual Petition. After 2 years separation from date of her departure from Malaysia, you may seek divorce but if she comes back from Vietnam, you may have a tough legal fight.

By Constitutional Laws rights, your child is Malaysian and she would not get Full Custody if you do not harm her physically.

2. If we bring this case to the court (either by me or her), what's my winning percentage?
Depending on circumstances, her lawyer may petition that you upkeep her, having a share of your assets and she remains in Malaysia. She may get Full Custody and down the road, she run back to Vietnam and register the child there. It is very subjective and depending on your or her lawyers' experiences. Since the baby is just born, High Court Judges is likely to give the baby to mother.

Of course she may claim that she is willingly to live and bring up the child in Malaysia. But what she can do to the child after getting Full Custody is anybody's guess.

Divorce proceedings is very dirty.

3. If she got the custody, is it possible for her to take the baby out of country? If yes, can I stop the alimony then?
Yes, she can do anything with the child, you cannot. You have no more legal rights. She can come back and appoint a lawyer to file contempt of court to jail you for not complying to a High Court Judgement. Most likely she would not come back to sue you but you will never see your child again.

4. How to determine the amount of alimony?
She can claim up to 50% of your assets, house, car and bank savings accounts and 50% of your salary (after deducting personal living expenses).

So, the rule of the thumb is the Man does not file for divorce.

5. In case I let baby live with her, and we do not go to court but would like to have a mutual agreement on alimony and divorcement. How do I ensure she won't use the kid to threaten me for more money in future?
No way you can prevent it. Her friends and relatives can teach her. Or new boyfriend.

6. Can I apply for Nullity of marriage?
Have a child already, can qualify as nullity?

7. Can I apply injunction to prevent my wife from taking the baby out without my acknowledgement? If so, how to apply?
This issue must be settled during the divorce proceeding for Child Custody. But to me, it is fruitless if she smuggle the child out of the country and does not come back. Once she is back in Vietnam she applies for the child citizenship and she keeps the child, and there is nothing you can do.

8. Can I cancel her visa sponsorship once she leave Vietnam (without baby)?
Yes

9. How to ensure my baby is Malaysian only, no dual citizenship?.
The Constitutional Laws of both countries protects the mother. Your child can have Dual Nationality till 21 years old, then the child decide to (MUST) take up one country only.

10. In case, I give up my baby and let her has full custody in exchange of having her sign on the divorce paper without requesting any penny from me. Can she take the case to the court in future and request for alimony again?
Then you two have to file a Mutual Divorce Petition stating stating all the Terms and Conditions. She can file in the future if you become a millionaire but it would cost her lots of monies to pay up front. There is a remote possibility if she becomes an invalid. Very subjective..

11. In case, I won the custody, can I ask alimony from her? How to ensure she will pay while she is not living here?
She is not working now and being dependant on you for all living expenses. Do not listen to lawyers asking for things, it looks like a showcase. The judge may get fed up of you and award full custody to her.

Fight on one issue only, that is custody of your child.

That is why most fathers loses custody of his child. Present too much nonsense to the court..!!

If you do come to Kuala Lumpur, find me. There are things I cannot put in black and white. I can be sued.
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answered on Oct 12, 2017 at 03:19
by   jeff005
@ balflee
Any good news
Your child is out oledi?
Boy or girl?
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