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Malaysian married foreigner wife but children were born before marriage thus failed to get Malaysian citizenship

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asked on Aug 9, 2017 at 07:40
by   Pragas
edited on Aug 21, 2017 at 06:03
 
I'm a Malaysian. Married legally to a Filipino. We have 2 good looking boys. My eldest will be 20 next month and youngest just turn 11.

Sadly both my boys only have a birth certificate without citizenship of Malaysian. The background of such is simply because my boys were born before we were legally married. In short they are countriless. I've submitted 3 times for citizenship application and all 3 were rejected by Kementerian Dalam Negari (KDN) without reason. I can't do apply Malaysian Permanent Residency for them either.

Checked with immigration, and apparently the only way out is to get them Filipino passports and deport them to Philippines. My boys are born here in Malaysia. They studied here in Malaysia. My wife is about to receive her Malaysian Permanent Resident status, but my boys are helpless and lost.

My eldest can't even study further without passport or MyKad.

Seeking guidance and advice for our ongoing struggle for the last 12 years.
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10 Answers
answered on Aug 10, 2017 at 04:55
by   Tanavaroot
edited Aug 21, 2017 at 06:08
 
The background of such is simply because my boys were born before we were legally married.
Sadly.. you have made a serious mistake with the first son, why then make same mistake with second son. Never mind the reason for the delayed marriage. Is your name in their Birth Certificates?

In short they are countriless.
Wrong.. They are not Stateless, in long term they are citizens of The Great Philippines.

all 3 were rejected by Kementerian Dalam Negeri (KDN) without reason.
Wrong again.. How can anyone amend the Constitutional Laws of your country and other countries. The reason is that they are citizens of The Philippines. Your Kementerian Dalam Negeri (KDN) is correct to reject.

only way out is to get them Filipino passports and deport them to Philippines.
1000% CORRECT!

My eldest can't even study further without passport or MyKad.
Who are those people who had put them in such a dilemma and predicament?

You have made a very serious mistake with the first son, there is still time to make amends with the second son.

Send them back to The Philippines!
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answered on Aug 26, 2017 at 14:54
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 10:33
 
Wow. What a ridiculous ruling from Kementerian Dalam Negeri (KDN). You are a Malaysian, your boys are entitled to Malaysian citizenship as a result, regardless of whether or not you were married when you had them. They are both below 21, so they are entitled to currently have dual citizenship.

Don't listen to Tanavaroot, he/she is making judgements without having any idea of the law.

I suggest you get a good lawyer and fight this tooth and nail as the law is on your side in this particular case. Your boys have been hard done by.
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answered on Aug 26, 2017 at 21:47
by   Tanavaroot
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 10:44
 
Don't listen to Tanavaroot, he/she is making judgements without having any idea of the law.
I posted on a neutral point of view which may or not help the poster. For your info only, I am not a lawyer or lawmakers. My personal knowledge on some aspects of discipline of various laws can easily double surpass you.

I suggest you get a good lawyer and fight this tooth and nail as the law is on your side
Is this a workable solution? Did you apply Immigration Laws and Court Rules and Regulations and furthermore Airports Rules and Regulations? The moment if the Judgement is unfavorable, the Judge will order the two children to be held by the Court Police who are stationed at Courthouse pending Immigration clearance for deportation. You have been inside a court room for legal cases? People would want their children NOT to be brought out of court house in handcuffs. Sensible people would rather surrender to Immigration, at least there are Goodbye kisses and hugs (for the time being) and a grace period to exit Malaysia at the Airports.

Have funds to fight Constitutional Laws in courts? Constitutional laws lawyer fees start at RM30,000.

Also beware, court proceedings bring out everything!
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answered on Aug 26, 2017 at 23:36
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 10:46
 
Are you 100% sure about the advice you have offered Pragas? If you are not, and he listens to you, then you could potentially have caused him and his family a lot of problems. This is a serious issue involving real people's lives, your comments to him almost seemed like you were mocking him.

Pragas, I suggest you get advice from a Constitutional lawyer. I recommend Syahredzan Johan. I have his personal email but I obviously can't post it here. Send him a tweet as he's on twitter and I am sure he will oblige you and give you his contact details. He might even offer you free advice. I have done it before and he's helped me out without charge. Good luck.
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answered on Aug 27, 2017 at 00:16
by   Tanavaroot
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:04
 
Are you 100% sure about the advice you have offered Pragas?
You are 100% sure that the lawyer you have recommended can resolve Pragas issues?

Even the Immigration Officers told him that. I am just giving him the reasons. Don't put words into my mouth. It was the Immigration Officers advice.

There are so many marriages with foreign spouses nowadays, for sure these types of citizenship issues would crop out more than ever. Is it not about the parents fault? Whose then? A marriage is not just about love, sex and bring up offsprings. It is also about following the laws of the country, protecting the citizens. Protect your Family, your spouse and children.

I do find it funny that the wife has not gotten her MyPR. The underlying conditions and situations were not declared, maybe? 20 years have passed! Whose fault? My fault again? I know so many people in Malaysia whose spouses have got MyPR after 10 years. There are many Foreign spouses in Thailand who have Dual Nationality with Malaysia and Thailand.

You have your worldly experiences, I have MINE.. let's keep it that way!
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answered on Aug 27, 2017 at 00:36
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:01
 
Is it not about the parents fault?

Are you here to judge him or to offer him help? You really are some piece of work, do you know that. I am sure he didn't come on here to be ridiculed by you when he posted his concerns. He wants answers. If you know the law inside out and can offer him a constructive solution, then great. Telling him to ignore the roots that have been planted in Malaysia over the last 20+ years, and to uproot the entire family and emigrate to Philippines is not what any of us would consider to be constructive.
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answered on Aug 27, 2017 at 01:07
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:03
 
I do find it funny that the wife has not gotten her MyPR. The underlying conditions and situations was not declared, maybe?

If you knew anything about how the Malaysian Immigration Department works, you wouldn't have made such a silly remark. The official stance is that after five years of continuous living in Malaysia, the spouse can then apply for PR status. In reality, most spouses will not be granted the PR on the first application, they will only be granted it after many attempts. These sorts of issues are why some of us get so frustrated with the system.
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answered on Aug 27, 2017 at 02:28
by   Tanavaroot
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:25
 
If you knew anything about how the Malaysian Immigration Dept works
For 5 years I have dealings with Immigration Departments.. note the "s".

The official stance is that after five years of continuous living in Malaysia, the spouse can then apply for PR status
In @Pragas case above, was she a "spouse" in the very first instance? And when she became a legal spouse? Was his name on the birth certificate as "Father"? The name of the father can be inserted while the father is still single. If it is not single status (what happened) as per his MyKad.. the name of the "Father" cannot be inserted, meaning, according to International Laws, the citizenship of the newborn follows the mother.

These sorts of issues are why some of us get so frustrated with the system
This is because laws and documentations were not followed in the first instance.

Offer him a constructive solution
I have offered, same as what the Immigration Officers did. That is, go back to the Philippines to get their Filipino citizenship first. They are not citizens of Malaysia or the Philippines now. Who are they? They will perpetually carry on with this situation for the next 10 or 20 years. Why not get a citizenship now and passports to travel and work where they like? They are not infants already. The world is getting border_less soon in our lifetime. Why be tied down? Once their ban period is over, they can come back and apply Long-Term Social Visit Pass (LTSVP) to live here again with their parents. Then apply for MyPR and down the long road.. citizenship (if they want). Is the above NOT constructive solution? 

Your advice..  GET A LAWYER. Not everybody can afford one.

He wants answers.
Some situations, no workable solutions. The Constitutional Laws are there. Is your recommendation to get a lawyer a solution? If he loses in the High Court despite spending tons of moneys (the lawyers will always get their fees in advanced), the children will be deported back to their home country. For sure they will get citizenship back there because of their mother but for the 20 year old adult (note the age of consent to be "legal tender" for some countries is 18 years old), will the authorities over there issue him a immediate Passport to travel? Quote "You only come back after being "kicked" out from the other country, why the Immigration Department would issue him a passport immediately?"

Telling him to ignore the roots that have been planted in Malaysia over the last 20+ years, and to uproot the entire family and emigrate to Philippines is not what any of us would consider to be constructive.
There is no great uproot. Father is here, mother will be getting MyPR soon. The whole family is not under deportation! Other than you, how many people on this thread regarded the Immigration Officer advice as not "constructive". I only echo the opinions tendered by Immigration.
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answered on Aug 27, 2017 at 15:51
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:32
 
Wow, I can't believe the amount of drivel you have posted in your last two posts, so am not going to waste my time commenting on every point. I will only touch on two points.

GET A LAWYER. Not everybody can afford one.

This is such as stupid claim. You are advising him to presumably quit his job, and his wife to quit her job as well if she's working, to uproot and leave to another country that only his wife is familiar with, as opposed to spend a few thousand on a lawyer?

Think about what you just wrote. The amount of money they will lose during this entire process would be in the thousands, certainly a lot more than hiring a lawyer. What guarantees are there that they can find gainful employment in their new country? Are you going to give them a job?  Not to mention the emotional and psychological scarring that the family will have to go through. You are making it sound like it's a matter of moving a few houses down the street.

This is because laws and documentations were not followed in the first instance

This definitely confirms to me that you know NOTHING about the Immigration Department in Malaysia. Spouses have had all the relevant documentation and yet their PR applications are rejected time after time by an incompetent department. It became such a big issue a few years ago that after countless complains were made against the Immigration Department, an investigation was made into it and the Minister gave the all clear to immediately process the huge backlog of cases. Miraculously all the spouses who had been waiting for years were granted their PRs in record time.
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answered on Aug 28, 2017 at 12:04
by   BobtheBuilder
edited Sep 15, 2017 at 11:39
 
Other than you, how many people on this thread regarded the Immigration Officer advice as not "constructive". I only echo the opinions tendered by Immigration.

Somehow I missed this ridiculous post from you yesterday. Listen, get your facts right before you spout out such rubbish and mislead the original poster. The Immigration Officer has zero authority in advising a person about his or her citizenship status. They have about as much authority as you do, which is zilch. Citizenship related information should only be accepted from Kementerian Dalam Negeri (KDN). Even then, you can't assume that the Officer has his facts right. Due diligence and verification of this info must be made before blindly accepting it.
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