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Settlement of bankruptcy

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asked on May 4, 2017 at 03:19
by   Thomas josh
Dear respected sir / mdm

First of all would like to thank this forum as many of my answers has been answered.

Let me explain my bankruptcy
I was made bankrupt on oct 2015 by a private company for not paying credit. Even though I did not owe them, still I have been bankrupt due to my partner use my name but regardless of what happen I have met them to resolve recently and they have agreed for me to pay 50% of the amount due with the rest they will kejar my ex partner for it. 

Right now I have debt as per follows
Ptptn = rm24k
Hire purchase rhb= 25k (18 months left) paid 66 months
The company = rm27k

My problem is that I have never defaulted in my hire purchase loan all these months therefore the bank did not tarik the car and this morning after discussin with credit department they say no demand letter has been issued to them as me not to trigger it just continue loan.

I have money to pay all the loans and dues. But when I call insolvency officer who attend my case, she is requesting me to stop paying the car and must tarik Even though I have NOT attended interview at insolvency and at the same time bank says dont trigger.

I hope there is someone here who can tell me what I can do. Now I have obtained letter from ptptn and the company but the hire purchase is my biggest issue. I have reas cases here where even after paying to insolvency the money was not paid to the respective department for months.
1. Can and will the bank agree to let me pay big amount but not clear loan so that they wont have to tarik the car?

2. Can and will the bank issue me a letter to say they do not wish to tarik the car and therefore allowing me to continue the loan

3. How long it takes for me to be discharge and what is the procedure to be discharge IF it is my part to get it discharged after the payment.

I am ao tired of being a bankrupt I have everything but nothing under my name and worst still I have factory overseas that has been operating since oct 2015 and I came back to malaysia in april 2016 that is needing me now for a big project in dubai.

Hope anyone can help me with answers
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answered on May 4, 2017 at 05:25
by   jeff005
edited May 4, 2017 at 05:30
by   jeff005
they have agreed for me to pay 50% of the amount due with the rest they will kejar my ex partner for it.  
They are wrong to say that. JIM will still not discharge you unless they give the debt 50% discount. This creditor have no right to discharge you.

Ptptn = rm24k 
Have to pay back in full this government loan before the DGI will discharge you.

But when I call insolvency officer who attend my case, she is requesting me to stop paying the car and must tarik 
The officer is correct and is applying the Bkcy Laws accurately.

Now I have obtained letter from ptptn and the company
What is the actual details stated in the letter? Does it contravenes Bkcy Laws?
Post details here for better understanding

credit department they say no demand letter has been issued to them as me not to trigger it just continue loan. 
The credit depattment is just telling lies to their advantage. Ask them for a official letter. If they dare to issue one to you after knowing you are a bankrupt, see who gets penalized by DGI of JIM. In Singapore, the officer who signs it will be jailed and heavy fines to the bank.
In any case, after the full loan of this car has been completed, this car will be "surrendered" to JIM, it cannot be sold or transferred without written permission from DGI JIM.

Hope anyone can help me with answers
Report in to JIM and apply to travel overseas for work purposes.
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answered on May 4, 2017 at 06:12
by   Thomas josh
Dear Sir @jeff005. I appreciate your answer and it is already very helpful to me.

My situation right now is i have the cash to clear all my debts in full. 

My question:
1. can i pay the ptptn AND /OR the car loan full or a big amount before i surrender myself to DGI JIM

2. so i should collect an offer letter from the creditor saying that they agree for a 50% discount and will discharge both person whom they have made bankrupt. Is this correct?

3. What happens when my car kena tarik? is there any other way as i have the full money to clear all my loans and debts in FULL 

From other post i have read, 
i have understand that, regardless of what happens it is better for me to open my management file with DGI first then only submit the letters for full settlement, is this true sir?

My situation is i have full money to pay back all my loans / dues / debts totaling to an amount of rm75k at present, and the company which made me a bankrupt has given me a letter via email, to be summarized next week to agree for a 50% discount but they did not mention about the other partner, but i have understood that JIM will not discharge me if the other partner still has due which also means 50% rules apply. i do not want to lose that car. 

what is the best thing i can do right now sir?
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answered on May 4, 2017 at 06:29
by   Thomas josh
Dear sir, my step is this i am following even before i open my management case file to see if i can cut short.

https://www.lawyerment.com/answers/questions/8399/any-sample-letter-to-write-to-bank-on-settlement-of-debts-loan?g=1#tab-top
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answered on May 4, 2017 at 15:58
by   vkpc
3. What happens when my car kena tarik? is there any other way as i have the full money to clear all my loans and debts in FULL.
To allay your fears, why don't you fully settle your car loan first, then it wont kena tarik.
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answered on May 5, 2017 at 02:42
by   jeff005
edited May 5, 2017 at 04:29
by   jeff005
1. can i pay the ptptn AND /OR the car loan full or a big amount before i surrender myself to DGI JIM 
PTPTN, you should pay back yr study loan. Report in and pay thru JIM.
The car, decide later, have to do 2 things at the same time. Either mode collapses, the whole thing collapses.

2. so i should collect an offer letter from the creditor saying that they agree for a 50% discount and will discharge both person whom they have made bankrupt. Is this correct? 
Yes.. this is the critical part. If they refuse, just do not pay anything and join the 3 years case management and get permission to travel overseas to work.

3. What happens when my car kena tarik? is there any other way as i have the full money to clear all my loans and debts in FULL  
This issue is very subjective. There a two ways of doing it.
Way 1.
Pay PTPTN thru JIM and get creditor to give discount for the whole debt.
Pay Creditor for after discounted amount and you would be discharge. If Bank do not want to file P.O.D. or surrender the car to JIM, then after discharge, you are no longer a bankrupt, you can continue the instalments.
It is best you discuss this issue with you OA before filing of your SOA. Statement of Acs.. to JIM.

Way 2.
Pay the car loan in full. You may not be able to sell or change ownership. Hide the car till your have settle the 50% discount issue with the Main Creditor. And have been discharged which may take about 2 months or more. After discharged, you are no longer a bankrupt. IT IS YOUR CAR THEN...!!!

Either mode, the Creditor issue have to be settled first.

Btw the bank cannot tarik back the car if you have completed 70% of the total number of instalments. This is protected under H/P Laws. And JIM will not tarik. JIM will ask you to "surrender" the car. How to surrender if the bank did not file POD and cannot tarik balik for lelong purpose?.. This is one of the possible gray areas that you may be able to take advantage off. Best is to discuss with JIM OA.

Hope you can understand.. am having mental block today on reasoning issues..
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answered on May 5, 2017 at 02:53
by   jeff005
https://www.lawyerment.com/answers/questions/8399/any-sample-letter-to-write-to-bank-on-settlement-of-debts-loan?g=5#tab-top

Why study and follow a long ago thread. Some changes have been made by JIM since then.
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answered on May 6, 2017 at 01:41
by   Thomas josh
Sorry for the late reply sifu's, here i share more update then i will reply the to the answers above:

I went to ptptn yesterday to resolve old issue, as i only finished 1 sem but they cleared payment to university for 5 sem, so went to the uni and they asked me to go get statement from both ptptn and cimb for refund purposes. so done all that. waiting for 3 weeks for the statement from CIMB then another 3 weeks from university is needed.

So, right after that i informed my main creditor that MDI is asking for offer letter and that i can only pay to MDI for full settlement. So they said ok, they will discuss with their CEO, CFO and GM (big foreign company 130 years old) so the reason they are ok to give me 50% is because when i had a meeting with them, i showed them proof that i was still doing business with them up to 2015 (bankruptcy case 2013) and they did not know about it and admit that a few of their employees were sacked for mismanagement of funds. and also i did not have accounts with them, at the same time, incident happen when i was just 19 years (not old enough to be given credit), the company i was operating did not have a credit line with them and also it did not even have a bank account. everything i paid was cash or bank transfer from savings. So we opt for a better relationship, they as company must be able to show recover debt, and so they will reimburse when my account is recovered via new shipments made, the next shipment is on the 18/5/2017 from a 3rd world to 1st world and since i only do shipment by AIR.

fast forward to yesterday afternoon.
i went to MDI - putrajaya to discuss about my issue whereby i want to settle all my debts but the OA is quite reluctant, a lady OA explained alot to me, so of it might be helpful to you but she is answering LEGALLY what can be done. nothing about gray areas or loopholes was discussed.

1. since i have a car paid 70% and above and a fully paid EX5 as my asset
they still can lelong the car, but it is up to the budi bicara of the OA, if i beg her and can show proof that i need the car badly then obviously she will let me have the car even though i have a bike paid full in cash as the bike is worth less than 5000

2. she asked me to come clean with the OA about everything and she also mentioned it is up to the OA how she wants to help my case, it can so happen that the OA might ask me to settle the outstanding of others first before my SOA (statement of acts)

3. kedah MDI is one of the most busiest due to many state report to it. unsure about future and how it would help others.

4. i questioned her on whether to declare my real income or not, she said if no income means liar and might dig in to longer time frame to complete documents. but she said either way its not easy for them to track and trace.

5. to report to MDI is a must for all bankrupt and failure to do so sooner or later arrest warrant will be issued.

6. it takes time 1-3 months even if you have the money to clear your debt because the agency still has to send letter to those creditors who have yet to submit POD.
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answered on May 6, 2017 at 02:05
by   Thomas josh
@vkpc

To allay your fears, why don't you fully settle your car loan first, then it wont kena tarik.


can i do this legally? because OA told me to stop payment otherwise will have penalty for me.
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answered on May 6, 2017 at 02:21
by   Thomas josh
@jeff005
 
1. PTPTN, you should pay back yr study loan. Report in and pay thru JIM. 
The car, decide later, have to do 2 things at the same time. Either mode collapses, the whole thing collapses
i am ok to report in to JIM to clear my PTPTN, so what happens if the university refunds lets say my balance 3 - 4 semesters of unused tuition fees back to PTPTN directly. is that even legal? 

car, can i pay the car up front to bank for full settlement before my SOA, if yes how bad is the penalty that will be imposed to me and what further action can OA take against me or should i ask the OA as you have mentioned before, i mean can she even give me answer that will side me?

2. Yes.. this is the critical part. If they refuse, just do not pay anything and join the 3 years case management and get permission to travel overseas to work. 
so my worst case scenario exit strategy is this, which also means i must built my story base on this strategy to be on the safe side. but how basically the creditor agreed and i am giving them next business 1/4 value of the bankruptcy in 2 weeks because they requested that if they allow 50% disc then i must continue new account with them.

3. Btw the bank cannot tarik back the car if you have completed 70% of the total number of instalments. This is protected under H/P Laws. And JIM will not tarik. JIM will ask you to "surrender" the car. How to surrender if the bank did not file POD and cannot tarik balik for lelong purpose?.. This is one of the possible gray areas that you may be able to take advantage off. Best is to discuss with JIM OA. 
This is one part where i am sure most bankruptcies or soon to be bankrupts wouldnt know. thanks but still scarry, because it can just happen, i dont care about the car actually as i have not drive it since 2015 sept but it is helping a family to have a car and to move around thats why it worries me the most.
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answered on May 6, 2017 at 11:57
by   vkpc
Btw the bank cannot tarik back the car if you have completed 70% of the total number of instalments. This is protected under H/P Laws. And JIM will not tarik. JIM will ask you to "surrender" the car. How to surrender if the bank did not file POD and cannot tarik balik for lelong purpose?..

By law, after 6 months of bankruptcy, all interest have to stop.
On top of that, it is illegal to receive direct payments from a bankrupt.
So, the bank will have no choice but to tarik. ( repossess )
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