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Self Represent At Court To Fight Affin Bank

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asked on Mar 28, 2017 at 07:51
by   kunta_kinti
Purpose of this thread is to share court experience in my FIGHT with AFFIN BANK on credit card debt.

My original debt = RM9k.
I was served bankruptcy notice (Amount  RM77k) in 2015 thru substitute service.

I took the fight since then (already more than 1 year from date of noticed served). Throughout this period, i have attended court not lesser than 30 times; including attend case management, filing documents, file searches. TODAY, I AM STILL NOT A BANKRUPT PERSON. 

FYI, I am a layman. Cannot be more layman than layman.

End of 2016, the PKP rejected my application to set aside CP.
I made an appeal. Now the case is pending for decision by Judge in Chamber.

Stay tune for more.
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answered on Mar 28, 2017 at 13:21
by   vkpc
Hi Kunta_Kinti,

How did you manage to drag the case from 2015 to 2017 and still ongoing?
Do you feel that the PKP ( Penolong Kanan Pendaftar ) was wrong to reject your application?
What do you think of your chances at the High Court Judge appeal proceedings?
Do you feel afraid to talk to the Judge?

Your courage and perseverance in this fight is exemplary to all ordinary folks like us here.
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answered on Mar 28, 2017 at 14:04
by   jeff005
edited Mar 28, 2017 at 14:06
by   jeff005
Pls allow me to share my case and tumpang on this thread. Around 1988, I was given "Pre-approved" credit cards by 1 bank and 2 finance companies with very low interests rate and free annual fees for life. In 2002, I started on my first default at below 10K which was my credit limit. One of my card limit was 30K. I was stupid not to have max it. In 2006   I was made Judgement Debtor In Default. Today my total debts could easily surpass the 700K, how to pay? In 2002, I did approach a bank to nego, they did not want to nego. Crazy banks right?
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answered on Mar 28, 2017 at 16:13
by   Tomcat
@jeff005,

What happened after you were made judgement debtor back in 2006?
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answered on Mar 28, 2017 at 23:01
by   jeff005
edited Mar 28, 2017 at 23:03
by   jeff005
@ Tomcat

Nothing happened to me except blacklisted by banks. I was on the "run". No public records at all. A point to note is that I have never bought a property nor cars under my name before. 2nd hand van and motobike, yes. Maybe because of no assets, the bank have not file bkcy.
Touch wood..YET
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answered on Mar 28, 2017 at 23:21
by   jeff005
edited Mar 29, 2017 at 00:05
by   jeff005
The moral of the above case of kunta kinti is about Self Representing in court lawsuits. Judges, lawyers are homo sapiens too. There can be mistakes made esp by bank lawyers. Thus a fight in court is necessary.
Self Representing is not difficult but not as simple as abc. One only have to read thru all the past cases in this section of Lawyerment Forum, can self represent to fight those bank lawyers. Read read read, face the lawyer in front of the Judge and present your case, your points. Understand the facts of your own case and you may/can win. Thus saving yourself tens of thousands engaging lawyers which more often than not, lose it for you.
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answered on Mar 29, 2017 at 10:02
by   kunta_kinti
@vkpc

How did you manage to drag the case from 2015 to 2017 and still ongoing?
 

If you can stand my grammatical errors, you may find my sharing interesting, and useful too.

Reason (1) The Avengers helped. 
They guided me step by step. With their help, I won an earlier fight in 2012, with cost, also Affin Bank. Affin Bank already paid me the cost. Don't be surprise a layman like me can defeated Bank which represented by lawyers. 
With help of Avengers, anybody can do it. Tidak begitu susah sebenarnya, percayalah!
I am the first generation student at School of Avengers. 

Reason (2) The bank lawyer made mistakes
Lawyers in my case made mistakes which were unable to repair (kesilapan-kesilapan yang tidak dapat dibaik-pulih).  Therefor, I am still here able to stop them. At the moment, Affin Bank lawyer which I am fighting is more or less like spectator who watch helplessly, a plane crashing in slow motion (just a scenario description ). They knew it.

Note : Generally, not all bank lawyers were born errors prone. It is just that seldom there is any judgement debtor (Penghutang Penghakiman) fight them (seriously) in court. Therefor, they take for granted the legal system. They thought judgement debtors do not have the capability and legal knowledge to fight (they forgot now have Avengers Malaysia). Day in day out, year in year out, hundreds, thousands of people being made bankrupt easily, even though they (lawyers) use dirty tricks, unethical tactics etc..
Some of the examples :
a. they would file untruthful afidavits by claiming that judgement debtors refused to received bankruptcy notice of a process server (someone who come to your house or office to hand you in person bankruptcy notice, creditor petition or etc) while in fact nobody ever came to meet you at the date, time and venue  
mentioned in their process server's written notice. 
Do you know why they can do like this? 
Simple, because nobody cares. if judgment debtor do not fight in court, those untruthful afidavits will looks like true because "no objection means agree". Got it?

b. they would skip substitute service (eg: newspaper advertisement) even though court order clearly stated the requirement.  Do you know why they can do like this? 
Simple, because nobody cares. if judgment debtor do not fight in court and never challenge about it, it is no longer material. it is merely one of the nail hammered to judgement debtor's bankruptcy coffin. 

c. more (i can share in another thread if readers interested and i have the mood).

Reason (3) PKP in-experience 
It is not appropriate for a layman like me to make 'judgement' that the PKP (Penolong Kanan Pendaftar) who handle my case was junior (not enough experience). However, that was the main reason why the case is still on-going after over a year. I guess I am/was the FIRST LAYMAN that she came accross in her career, who self represent and fight with bank lawyer, therefor, she was not sure on how actually to manage my case (me); from earlier days in case management up to summon in chambers up to written summissions up to decision making day. She was surprised to see a self represent layman in front of her where her previous experience merely facing documents and processing documents (of course i am not saying lawyer who meet her everyday aint human). 

Once she was emotionally disturbed after i summitted additional written summission that caught her by surprise. 

I have waited 4 months for her Written Grounds of Judgement (alasan penghakiman) in which until now she had yet to reply. By the way, she rejected my application to set aside CP (Petisyen Pemiutang) where I am now appealling to high court judge.

The PKP postponed many times and unnecessarily. It may favor most judgement debtors who wish to buy time delaying bankruptcy, but not me. 

Do you feel that the PKP ( Penolong Kanan Pendaftar ) was wrong to reject your application? 
I think reason (3) above said it. She is too junior. For my case, she wasn't making decision base on bankruptcy law, i think.  
It looks like she chosen to "side bank". If the high court judge overturn her decision in my appeal case, surely her KPI will hurt. I wish her well anyway.

What do you think of your chances at the High Court Judge appeal proceedings? 
According to feedback from Avengers HQ, i stand a fair chance for the judge to overturn PKP decision, which mean i might win.
I am layman, so if you ask me, I follow Avengers point of view.

In the event I lost, I plan to appeal to federal court (Putrajaya). federal court am i right? Excitement ahead. 

Do you feel afraid to talk to the Judge?
Not at all. To me, speaking to the judge was just like another day in meeting room with my supplier/customers at work place. My disadvantage is on court flow. I wasnt sure when should be the correct timing for me to ask/clarify.  I am quite confident in court experience.  partly should thank the PKP who provided me opportunities to practice for the last 1 year. The bank lawyer also helped as well. We used to chat while waiting for our turns.

My advantage is i am capable of speaking in both english and malay during court proceeding, even though not the best. I can switch language comfortably. The high court judge asked me the other day which language i plan to use in my coming oral summission.
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answered on Mar 29, 2017 at 11:02
by   notalawyer
Some minor corrections here:

I made an appeal. Now the case is pending for decision by Judge in Chamber.
Actually the case is pending a hearing, not yet pending a decision.
The next court date has been set for oral submissions.

In the event I lost, I plan to appeal to federal court (Putrajaya). federal court am i right?
Court of Appeals (Putrajaya) first.
If lose again, then only Federal Court. ( also Putrajaya )
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answered on Mar 30, 2017 at 15:28
by   ronykk
If the original debt is 9K, then it wouldn't qualify for bankruptcy?  The 10K limit is for principal only, excluding interest and other charges, if I am not mistaken - someone please clarify.  If I am right, then the original bankruptcy notice is defective.
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answered on Mar 30, 2017 at 15:33
by   vkpc
The 10K limit is for principal only, excluding interest and other charges, if I am not mistaken.
You are mistaken.
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answered on Mar 30, 2017 at 17:33
by   jeff005
edited Mar 30, 2017 at 17:48
by   jeff005
In credit card debts there is no clear cut principal figure as the interests rates is computed on a daily basis and compunded.

The only principal amount declared is in the tuntutan aka statement of claims in a lawsuit. And as at bkcy amount too. In principle that is not exactly a principal amount.
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