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Not sure if bankrupt but unable to travel to oversea

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asked on Feb 20, 2017 at 21:20
by   Annfong
edited on Feb 26, 2017 at 08:34
 
My dad is 60 years old now. Checked through the Immigration SSPI2 website and stated that 'Please refer to the nearest immigration department'.

History:
Applied housing loan in 1997 around RM115,000 but due to economy crisis, unable to pay. CTOS states 'Bankruptcy-Adjudication Order issued'. Checked Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia (JIM) website status - No bankruptcy

How should I go about it to check if he is really bankrupt?
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answered on Oct 11, 2017 at 23:33
by   kiki
I have checked but it is still please refer to the immigration :(
I suggest your father try his luck by going to the immigration dept first and bring along the result of the e-insolvensi. 
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answered on Oct 12, 2017 at 01:55
by   Annfong
Dear Kiki,

Alright, thanks for your suggestion, definitely try that out  
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answered on Oct 12, 2017 at 02:30
by   jeff005
edited Oct 12, 2017 at 02:33
by   jeff005
@ Annfong

Try to get a reading with MyEg. If it still negative then use MyEg and statement from e-insolvensi bring it along to Immigration and try to get his passport made. Dun try sure cannot.

Take note that bar from overseas travel can also from the tax dept or being a guarantor for other people. 20 years ago, a lot of things could have been forgotten.

You have not answer me on your uncle's status.
Joint name, is it Joint Borrower too.? Maybe he settled this case?
Your father could be discharged but Immigration is not updated.
Can you tell me in what year was the property purchased ?

Personal opinions only
Your father is younger than me, it is time for him to be released from this mental torture. Personally if I am in his place, I would not go and report in. Why pay for the next 5 years.?😕 😣 If there is a urge to visit the place of his roots, then only do so to report in. I have done it by visiting China and a number of places before my own bkcy knocks me down, so, I can or may understand his feelings.

Do take note that they may not immediately allow him to travel overseas as some bankrupts who have report in to JIM has complained. And there is now a travel tax of RM 3k per country visited.

Try the MyEG.. If it is still negative, then come back to me. I suspect that there is a flaw in their system in e-insolvensi website. In any case going direct to Immigration will not cause him to be locked up or arrested. They will ask him to go JIM to get a letter as the same as EPF.
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answered on Oct 12, 2017 at 22:18
by   Annfong
@jeff005

I appreciate your reply.
Try to get a reading with MyEg. If it still negative then use MyEg and statement from e-insolvensi bring it along to Immigration and try to get his passport made. Dun try sure cannot. 
I will definitely try this out too! 

Take note that bar from overseas travel can also from the tax dept or being a guarantor for other people. 20 years ago, a lot of things could have been forgotten. 
You are absolutely right. When I asked him more about it, I'm not sure if he really forgotten or because of ego, the answer is always forgotten.

You have not answer me on your uncle's status. 
Joint name, is it Joint Borrower too.? Maybe he settled this case? 
Your father could be discharged but Immigration is not updated. 
Can you tell me in what year was the property purchased ? 

Unfortunately we do not have any contact with him all these years. The last time I heard from my dad that my uncle is barred too. He purchased the property in 1992. The CTOS report only stated the case no, notice, petition and order date, solicitor, why the amount is not stated? Just out of curiosity. 

Personal opinions only 
Your father is younger than me, it is time for him to be released from this mental torture. Personally if I am in his place, I would not go and report in. Why pay for the next 5 years.?😕 😣 If there is a urge to visit the place of his roots, then only do so to report in. I have done it by visiting China and a number of places before my own bkcy knocks me down, so, I can or may understand his feelings. 

Sigh. He is greatly affected for all these years and, as a result, low self-esteem and he does feel hopeless sometime. You are right, he is kind of dilemma now. If report then the consequences may be unfavorable, if dont report then he is stuck in such circumstances where he could not even attend his own son's wedding and yes, he always wanted to visit China. 

Try the MyEG.. If it is still negative, then come back to me. I suspect that there is a flaw in their system in e-insolvensi website. In any case going direct to Immigration will not cause him to be locked up or arrested. They will ask him to go JIM to get a letter as the same as EPF.
I think this is the best way now. I am going back next month, will definitely update here *cross finger*. Thank you very much Jeff, you have been very helpful! 
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answered on Oct 13, 2017 at 02:49
by   jeff005
@ Annfong

CTOS cannot disclose bkcy amount and in any case could be erroneous as there could be other creditors too. The fact being adjudged a bankrupt is sufficient for credit reference.

If you wish to grant your father's wishes to visit China and at the same time attend yr brother's wedding, read my this suggestion. This depends on whether he would want to report in to JIM after 20 yrs. This may involve a sum of money's.

Basically the plan is like this
Report in to JIM, pay as token repayment monthly (maybe rm 100).
After a few months apply to travel overseas, sponsored by children, old age plus maybe medical condition.
After granted travel, come back, then stop the monthly repayment citing financial crises. There is no penalty, just that they would not allow overseas travel application. The rm3k travel tax could be lower if it is for short term, one time travel. Depends actually on his OA, case to case basis. There is a 3 months advance payment into the estate acc of the bankrupt of the monthly scheduled repayments. Of course a guarantor is mandatory. For over 60 years old, JIM is more lenient.

What I am suggesting is to "jump ship".
Pay travel tax to go visit China, from China go Australia for the wedding. Must be this pattern of travel. Once he reaches China, he can exit any to other country which do not require pre applied Visa. He can go several other countries too. And to those countries that allow VoA, Free Visa and 30 days Free Tourist Pass. Can even come to Thailand to visit me. I shall explain further in my next post. Having internet on off problems. I dun want to rewrite all over again.
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answered on Oct 13, 2017 at 03:22
by   jeff005
edited Oct 13, 2017 at 04:45
by   jeff005
@ Annfong

The issue of travel is with China. China do not allow VoA in the past, I do not know, maybe rules have changed. To visit China, we have to apply for Visa (paying) and would be granted a 3 months Visa (single entry) and a visit tourist pass of 30 days. Have to present a to and back air ticket.

The trick is after landing in China, cancel the return ticket, and reroute it to Australia. Or to other places which have VoA (Visa on Arrival). You only lose 33% for cancellation of air ticket if you travel by AirAsia. You cannot travel the other way round. On Malaysian passport the China Visa MUST be applied for in China Embassy in KL. and fly from KL to China. Those commies r really teruk.😡

After coming back to Malaysia, just buat bodoh, as though nothing have happened. JIM do not check or ask to view the bankrupts passport till the next time you apply for overseas travel again. Can stop paying to JIM. Nothing will happen, they won't bother him.

If have enough funds and if the monthly payment to JIM is low, then continue. After 3 years make an application for discharge. Currents reports mentioned that insolvency dept may discharge a 100k of "old bankrupts" cases in the next two years. But those could be conditional discharge, the travel ban is still there.

If your father's travel wishes have been fulfilled, what's the heck, if can afford, why not do it.
Pls dun quote me okay? But a lot of detailed study on current immigration procedures to those countries your father wishes to visit is required for successful execution.

Good Luck.. 😉🙃😌😜🤑🤗🙄😝🤓😎😛
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answered on Oct 13, 2017 at 15:14
by   Annfong
@jeff005

Sounds like a plan! At least I know what to expect now! Will discuss this with my sibling J How long have you been in Thailand? My sister in law is from Thailand and my brother is based in Bangkok now (my dad missed my eldest bro's wedd too, sigh) I travel to bkk quite often, if everything goes well, maybe we can visit you in the future HAHA *cross finger* I hope I can help him to settle this asap, it is mental torture indeed. Million thanks Jeff :)
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answered on Oct 13, 2017 at 19:08
by   jeff005
@ Annfong

I am in Ban Kong Niam, District of Khaokho,  Phetchabun Province.
I live in a farm right on the main road at the junction to Khaokho War Memorial and Weapons Museum. It is about 450km from BKK.

I put a teeny weeny investment in the farm as plan B in case I am made bankrupted. Been here for the past 20 moths. On and off on alternate months to bypass immigration issues. I can just walk across the border @Hatyai without the need for passport. That is my strength in the event of bkcy.
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answered on Nov 7, 2017 at 15:06
by   Annfong
@Jeff

Hi Jeff, I am finally back! Khaokho is quite far from the central tho :D Such a clever man to have plan B. 

Update: I have finally brought him to JIM last friday, apparently, previously I used his new IC number to check on the status and nothing appeared and when he included my dad's old IC number and found out that he has indeed made bankrupted in 1997 by maybank. I have then booked an appointment for him to be interviewed by the officer in Jan (I have to book another ticket to go back, sigh). But, now he is concerned about how it would affect my mother and the children. Will JIM took his EPF or any property under my mother/ my siblings? The officer asked me to bring along my siblings personal information (IC number and other info) and the utilities bills which my dad is staying in right now (under my name). My dad was a bit reluctant to attend the interview saying that they are being assertive and will make the children to pay his debt and will cause so much trouble for us. Is this true? Please kindly advise.
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answered on Nov 7, 2017 at 15:33
by   jeff005
edited Nov 7, 2017 at 15:38
by   jeff005
Probably my last post today. On the way to Khao Kho again this evening.
I am not clever. If I am I wouldn't have been in debts issues and have hide for 14 years. Just streetwise after coming to this forum, taught by many sifus.

used his new IC number to check on the status and nothing appeared and when he included my dad's old IC number and found out that he has indeed made bankrupted in 1997 
I am aware of this issue. It only affects "old men". Same as blacklistings in CCRIS. But it will only affect a minority of people and they renew the compulsory MyKad at the last last extended moment. I was reluctant to reveal this issue out. 

 any property under my mother/ my siblings?
So long as his name is not in,  BEEG BEEG NO  If joint names (2 persons) 50% only (his share)

Children's name is for claiming of living expenses. Must put or esle no income, no work, how he survived on? Contaminated air and water? Yours name are in, you all are the sponsors of his living expenses, with your names inside, you children can sponsor him for occasional overseas trips..!! Utilities bills is to affirm that he is living there. Many bankrupts run away after reporting in.

I told you to bring him to see me. Old men can have heart to heart talk. I will be back in 1 month's time (to KL) Read my profile on lawyerment for my email address. Can only read and find it by using PC.
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