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What to do if you overstayed in Malaysia

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asked on Jan 3, 2017 at 14:45
by   jeff005
edited on Jan 9, 2017 at 05:51
 
Attention to those who have Overstay in Malaysia

Surrender to Immigration is the ONLY Solution:

1. Bring the passport that you have used to come into Malaysia.

2. For those who have "lost" their passport, go get new Temporary Passport from your Embassy in Malaysia.

3. For "lost" passports and unable to proof with documents the actual date of entry into Malaysia, be prepared for higher fines and longer ban period of re-entry.
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 00:16
by   jeff005
edited Jan 9, 2018 at 00:36
by   jeff005
@ Catharina

Walow yeh, u post such a complicated case for me to decipher?
One scratching the surface will consider it as gone case...!!

My two friends, Ah Low & Ah Zek  is grinning from ear to ear reading it waiting for any answers

I think I need to charge  you.. not many people in Malaysia, including lawyers. IMI staff can solve it and give her a new lease of life. But too many Qs still remains.

Qs
1.  What is she to you. Ur her new employer?

2.  How many passports she has held before. I need to know when it was issued (date stated on passport), place of issue of passport and collected from where. From what was stated above, there are 2 passports. One was stolen from her by one of the employers, now holding a second one which needs renewal.

3. while Immigration still lists her incorrect/old identity as 'runaway/blacklisted'? 
How did she know? Any verifications? And the verifications is based on name only?

4.  I interpret that the current passport she is holding now is with the age stated wrongly.. Y or N? How would you know that it can be corrected with the actual age on a new passport?

5.  Where is she now? When is the last time she went back to Indonesia?

girl was born to Indonesian parents in Sabah (East Malaysia) (birth certificate available and old passport mother available) 
girl was issued Indonesian passport in 2009

She was born legally in Malaysia
She is an Indonesian Citizen. The above has no relevance to her current predicament.
 but still useful to know on her standings.

Important link. I need to know how she obtained her second passport, date, issued from and collected from where? And at that point of time, where is/was she working. Has she ever used this passport to travel?

U want to do the new Direct Hiring of Maids, right?

6.  There are more Qs pending answers from above.
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 10:35
by   Catharina
@jeff005

Thanks, what a quick and thorough reaction, please allow me to elaborate on this situation and address your questions. I greatly appreciate your opinion and advise as both the girl and new employer don't really know how to  proceed.

1. I'm just a tourist who got to know both girl and new employer on holiday in Sabah previously (more than a year ago); I became close friends to both. This year again on holiday, also seeing them and inquiring on how the girl could get a normal life. The girl already lives in with the new employer basically acting as a maid, but without any legal docs. Both the girl and the new employer very much want to change the situation to a formal, legal maid-situation, but feel stuck somehow.

2. Only 1 Indonesian passport was held in her name in the past (issued in 2009 in Kota Kinabalu), but with incorrect DOB ('upgraded 3 yrs') and incorrect Place of Birth (Indonesia instead of Sabah). She never held this passport personally (was 16 back then) but was only given a photocopy by her previous 'bad' employer and his agent. That passport also had a maid work visa connected to it. I've understood after about a year she indicated she preferred to work at a different place, and then unexpectedly the employer had left his house/disappeared (also with her passport). Of course she should have reported that to the authorities, but being 17 at the time she never did and found her self without any docs again.
She does not have a new correct passport yet, but the Indonesian Consulate have promised they can issue a new correct one provided she can find an employer who can hire her formally, and provided, her new employer 'cancels' the old work visa and after that the new correct passport has been issued, start end complete the maid work visa application. So

3. The new employer, as instructed by the Indonesian Consulate, has contacted Immigration to 'cancel' the girl's old work visa, and then was told the girl was registered as 'runaway/blacklisted' - probably because the old 'bad' employer just disappeared and the girl never left Sabah. The new employer used the passport number of the incorrect old passport (using the photocopy the girl still has) and her name. The girl still remembers having to put down her fingerprints for the work visa at some stage in 2009.

4. Her old passport from 2009 (confiscated and taken by old employer) had wrong age and place or birth (to be able to force her to work back then), the Indonesian Consulate understands this problem and now with the Birth Certificate (Sabah) which she still has, is willing to issue a new and correct passport provided the new employer will hire her formally. While on holiday I personally have visited the Indonesian Consulate to explain her situation and ask for a solution, and they have fully confirmed to cooperate as this seems to be a very special case. The girl is about the same age as my own daughter - I found it very difficult to be home again knowing justice hasn't been done yet. The Indonesian Consulate have asked for docs/photocopies to to be sure they have the correct data now. Of course it is a mystery to me personally how an employer/agent in the past were able to obtain passport + work visa with partially incorrect data.

5. The girl has is in Sabah and has been living there all her life. She was born there legally in 1993 and never ever left Sabah or crossed any border. Her parents are from Indonesia, but she has never been there herself.

I hope I've addressed all your questions so far, I've read about the new Direct Hiring of Maids in the newspaper but as far as I know that is only useful for prospective maids who are still in their country of origin; the newspaper stated some employers also directly hire a maid how is visiting MY on a social pass, but the girl in question of course does not have a social pass.

I've tried to read your previous postings on this forum to avoid wasting your precious time; I've understood there is no point in disputing her 'runaway/blacklisted' status, although the status is incorrect. But suppose she obtains the new passport, the first one with her actual DOB and Place of Birth, will Immigration link that to her 'runaway' status? The only commonalities would be her name,  fingerprints and photo (although she was 16 then and now is 24). Although I'm not legally trained at all, I would almost argue that given the fact her old passport was incorrect, both the old passport and old work visa should be regarded as non-existing because that person was fictious/non-existing. In my simple mind aching for fairness I hope Immigration should regard a work visa application by her new employer as the first one. But of course I have no idea how that works out once the new employer should put in the application. Both the new employer and I now don't really know what is the best to do, and the girl even less so.

The new passport is within reach but she only will be legal with work visa if the old runaway status doesn't ruin the new application.

Life seems to unfair so some people, but what can I do but try to help?
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 11:27
by   james
good day!
want to ask regarding on 3+ 1.
can we surrender and apply 3+1 in around solaris dutamas area?
i check in google and i found that there's 1 immigration office there.
and the 3+1 really just total of 400 must pay? or is there any other hidden charges?

thx
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:01
by   jeff005
edited Jan 9, 2018 at 12:23
by   jeff005
@ Catharina

Wow.. I asked so few Qs and you reply so much.
That should be the way. 
You do have a very analytical mind. Not an ordinary tourist.
That could have saved her and be able to start a new lease of life. Thanks to U..!!
Ur really testing my experiences and problem solving skills for these type of immigration issues.

Let me recap her facts sheet, u must correct me if it is wrong.
1.  Only I passport is issued in 2009 
2.  She has never left Sabah (birthplace)
3.  She has never been to Indonesia.
4.  her fingerprints for the work visa at some stage in 2009. 
Pls check with her again. She did the two thumbs print (not biometrics) on some papers given by the agent in the workplace or inside Immigration office. 
5.  Has she done any 10 fingers printing biometrics in any Immigration office.?

Note No 4 & 5 above tilts the case to her advantage. Pls answer as clearly as possible.

Indonesian Consulate understands this problem and now with the Birth Certificate (Sabah) which she still has, is willing to issue a new and correct passport provided the new employer will hire her formally.
It is good that the consulate is in the loop and is willing to help, but, this idea is bad (my personal opinions) as it may hit into a brickwall with the new current immigration procedures in place.

Legal facts
6.  She is an overstayer (24 years)
7.  Even with old passport evidence (8 years overstaying) and the entry stamp may have been falsified (if any).
8.  Blacklisting of runaway and non renewal of work permit of 7/8 years.

All the above legal facts will point to the fact that IMI Malaysia will not give any allowances even if Indonesia Consulate is helping. She has to be deported and  BAN on re-entry.

If pursue the case. another matter surface, falsifying of personal data in Passport which is attracts a jail term. The victim has no legal recourse. The fact that this work permit is illegal due to under declared age.

Still want to go to IMI (Sabah)?
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:05
by   jeff005
@ james

Read all the postings under this thread for the past 3 weeks. The answers IS THERE.
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:15
by   jeff005
edited Jan 9, 2018 at 12:31
by   jeff005
@ Catharina 

Further Qs

1.  Is she in contact with her parents.
2.  Can she, from her part of Sabah, make her way to her parent's house  in Indon safely without going thru any immigration? (both Msia & Indon). I am aware that there are many porous border places.

By going back to Indonesia and obtained a real id (which she do not have), she can start life legally afresh and come back as a legal maid with work permit. After working and living in Sabah after 5 years she can apply for  PR  status. And at the point of time, her  birth cert which has stated that she was born in Sabah, may put her in a distinct advantage.

Do take note that she is neither Malaysian nor Indonesian with the lack of legal documents regarding her identity. Her old passport could be obtained by dubious means unless she can show you that she has further other docs.
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:24
by   Catharina
@jeff005

Just asked and your facts recap 1-4 is correct, re 5. She has only done the right hand thumb fingerprint in the Immigration office. Not any other finger, but it was done on some kind of computerised scanner/biometrics (back in 2009).

The old passport didn't have an entry stamp as that one was issued in KK. Just out of curiosity, when a child is born of parents who legally reside in Malaysia (which her parents did in 2009), that child is also legal at first I presume, but at what age does the child need to have his own docs/visa? The mother is illiterate and overstaying herself I've heard, the father has since long disappeared.

Would the forced creation of a partially incorrect passport/work visa for a minor be held against her?

What would you think is best to do in her case? What options might she have:

a. stay in the same position/place; basically a defacto prisoner for live as she can't be or become legal
b. with the new employer get the new passport and try to apply for new work visa and risk being identified as runaway maid (just not knowing what her chances are at that point)
c. leave Sabah with emergency exit papers and voluntary surrender? (that's the term I've learned from your postings?); maybe she can find relatives in Indonesia but it would be an alien world to her.

Your assessment is greatly appreciated!
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:34
by   Catharina
@jeff005

Her mother seems to be overstaying in Sabah, her father has returned to Sulawesi a long time ago it seems, maybe she might be able to find him or other relatives there.

I personally don't know any way of travel between Sabah and Sulawesi or Kalimantan without customs, I realise it might be a solution but it hurts me a bit to see someone do things that are not allowed oficially. What indeed, what is the lesser of two evils? I can pass on the suggestion.
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 12:59
by   Catharina
Do take note that she is neither Malaysian nor Indonesian with the lack of legal documents regarding her identity. Her old passport could be obtained by dubious means unless she can show you that she has further other docs.
Although she has to legal ID now, with all the documentary evidence collected her status as Indonesian citizen is recognised by the Indonesian Consulate beyond doubt. She also has a full sister (same mother and father) with valid Indonesian ID + visa in Sabah who has given a written testimony to that effect. With all these docs her Indonesian citizenship status is beyond doubt, she just has no passport yet :-)

If she manages to go back to Indonesia, get a new passport there and then apply with the new employer through the Hire Maid Online thing, she still has the chance that Immigration rejects her because her old/incorrect identity and status as 'runaway'; it's just that when that happens she would still be safely in Indonesia. Is my understanding correct?
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answered on Jan 9, 2018 at 13:01
by   jeff005
@ Catharina 

She has only done the right hand thumb fingerprint in the Immigration office
If done inside IMI office, the work permit is real but is null and void due to false age declared.

Do read again my above postings again, i have made slight adjustments.

Just out of curiosity, when a child is born of parents who legally reside in Malaysia (which her parents did in 2009), that child is also legal at first I presume, but at what age does the child need to have his own docs/visa?
Her Citizenship follows her mother citizenship by International Laws regardless of where she is born. Her parents have to apply for her legal status (as a Indon) and the right to remain in Malaysia following her mother status. If the mother is an illegal, she is then an illegal. Her parents can apply for her legal docs the day she is born.

Would the forced creation of a partially incorrect passport/work visa for a minor be held against her?
Yes.. Deportation is the current mode. No jail term unless she is caught in shady workplace.

Forget that work permit. It may bring her more woes.

Personal opinions to your above.
a. She cannot get married. Her future children are illegals like her and her mother. Why not break this chain of misery?

b.  I have suggested that this will not work.

c.  The 3+1 is over, with rumours that it is still active via MyEG. There are still no official validations direct by IMI Hq even after so many days. She has to wait if she opts for this. Read my discussion with @ AaravBT above for last week.

If she chooses this option, she would be ban for 5 years. She is at her prime years now. Can she bear it? Her emotions has to be taken into account.

Let me ponder over the best options for her type of case and do inform me if there are any new leads. But i may have some/a good move (not without risks) to gain her legality in this world. Lunch Break.
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