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Dual nationality and new biometric residence permit (BRP) in UK

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asked on Jul 20, 2016 at 07:49
by   HilaryT
edited on Jul 25, 2016 at 05:42
 
This is the situation, about indefinite leave to remain (ILR) and biometric residence permit (BRP). Not unique to me. I appreciate your responses and thank you!

Me with Malaysian passport. Got my ILR by marriage to British about 20 years ago. I've been working in UK all these while.

I applied BRP No Time Limit recently, as a contract employer did not want to recognise my ILR. So now I got BRP.

Having discussion with my family, it's time to have UK citizenship since all my assets are here. Brexit slightly relevant but keep Brexit out of this discussion.

So that's the background.

With the BRP, there's no use of the ILR. I think UK system has me with the BRP. If I show my old passport with the ILR at point of entry to UK, immigration will ask for my BRP.

If I have already got citizenship and British passport, I no longer have BRP, reason - it must be returned to home office when I got the passport / attended ceremony.

1. What passports do I use when enter and exit Malaysia when I already have British passport?

I know about messages here say using auto-gate on entry no problem but:

- I went back last month. When LEAVING KLIA I used auto gate. The system did find my details but said something like cannot process, go to see immigration officer. I thought reason maybe because my passport renewed in UK only very recently. Officer checked and asked something like you are studying etc., I said ya, and words to the effect: but that's some years ago. I feel it does not really matter what I said so long it does not catch me out. Is this to do with data not connected up for passports renewed very near to travel?

- Another thing, on the same trip, when ENTERING KLIA I could not use auto-gate because they were not ready, too early in the morning? So it was manual passport check, in fact had to wait about 5 minutes for the only officer to set things up. Is it because of this manual step, that then caused the EXIT auto gate to tell me to use manual exit?

- On exit at boarding gate, they check your passport again, what they are looking for, is it whether you have visa in the case of Malaysian passport holder? On some previous exits, they asked me if I am studying or working, so I answer that working. If I answer study, will they look for valid visa? Or they look for something else, illegal people, smugglers, traffickers etc., so asking to see your passport is just a way to try to catch you out?

- The fact if I show my old passport with the ILR, if they know the 'new' one that is BRP, they will want to see that. Of course, I can argue that so far I never need to do that because I have never got to change employment, accommodation etc. has anyone done that and willing to share info?

- Do the officers know the exact detail of BRP specific to UK?

- Could some people shed some light on this aspect of exiting Malaysia airports and only show current passport, no need for showing visa/ILR, now specifically BRP?

2. It's not likely I can renew my Malaysia passport in UK High Commission, since they will ask for my ILR.

- Has anyone been asked by High Commission to show BRP instead of ILR when renew passport?

- I can renew my Malaysian passport in Malaysia. The scenario in this case is I use British passport to enter and exit Malaysia. It's all very convulated! If I enter with British passport, they are not going to ask have you other country's passport. If I enter or exit Malaysia with Malaysian passport and for any reason they find my British passport, then it will be bad news losing the Malaysian passport + citizenship (and bad record and maybe barred from entry for some time?)

I don't have a huge stake if I lose Malaysian passport. Just very annoying when I am multiple times in the minority in Malaysia and grew up fixated with holding on that to assert the point that the power is wrong to sideline people like me. I have strong connection to family in Malaysia so giving up the passport is a bit sour but not major. I know about Malaysia My Second Home (MM2H).

Anyone knows about progress with dual nationality in Malaysia?

I think you got what I am asking. The most important is what I think that the ILR is being phased out so showing the old passport with ILR is no longer valid. I can't show BRP because I will soon have British citizenship. How to keep Malaysia passport?

Thank you again!
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answered on Jul 3, 2017 at 17:01
by   jeff005
For Malaysians passport holders, come in Malaysia using your own id. If you had a new passport with biometric fingers records, using an overseas passport will sooner or later, be exposed  that you are holder of 2 or more passports.
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answered on Jul 5, 2017 at 23:19
by   cendol
edited Jul 18, 2017 at 09:36
 
@blondesundoll

I'm thinking the same thing, as long as they don't search my bag in KLIA!

Also the embedded UK Indefinite leave to remain (ILR) or permanent residency (PR) is too valuable as that's the only excuse to leave Malaysia nowadays.

They deployed immigration officers at the boarding gate for direct flights to UK. They will do a random checks on people to ask to see whether they hold any type of visas for work/study purposes or for travelling will demand to see a return air ticket. I've been asked few times, but once I said I live and work in the UK and by flashing 
the ILR, no further questions asked.

While arriving in the UK, I do not mind to come in with my Malaysia passport with the ILR on it (which I've been doing this for many years) but due to the recent "Confiscation of your Biometric card if you've turned British Citizen" it's too risky for me to gamble with my Embedded ILR in case they going to void it. Once voided, I'm doom..
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answered on Nov 20, 2017 at 05:34
by   blondesundoll
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 06:53
 
@cendol,

Did you manage to travel successfully back to Malaysia?

My friend's cousin travelled via a third country (Singapore) with Malaysia and UK passport, seems to get away with it? 
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answered on Nov 22, 2017 at 09:49
by   jumbun man
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 06:56
 
I have two passports MY and UK.  UK one I travel to Europe and USA for work etc.  When I go to MY, I carry new MY Passport plus old one with right of abode certificate.  I show border control both passports.  My passport get Immigration stamp, and immigration man writes "PPT Seen"

I never take UK Passport to MY. Too risky.
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answered on Nov 26, 2017 at 10:29
by   blondesundoll
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 06:57
 
I am intrigued by how this is actually possible 'jumbun man', when did you last travel back to UK? UKBA site says 'You can’t get a certificate if you already have a British passport or a valid certificate of entitlement in another foreign passport.'

Also for those who have BRP instead of the stamp, this needs to be given up during the naturalisation ceremony. I am not sure how it is possibly to travel back to UK without your UK passport?
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answered on Nov 29, 2017 at 09:14
by   jumbun man
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 06:58
 
@blondesundoll, I carry my old 2003 Malaysian Passport with ROB cert issued by UK High Commissioner in KL and show it with my current MY passport.

This is my "gold" for unhindered UK entry.  As a precaution I discreetly carry my UK passport number if there are any issues.

I always tell my colleagues and friends, to keep "OLD" passports with UK ROB certs or vignettes with "Indefinite Leave to Remain". You have to surrender your BRP, but passports are yours to keep, even after naturalisation.
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answered on Nov 29, 2017 at 22:36
by   jumbun man
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 07:00
 
Overlooked your question 'blondesundoll', regarding travel to MY. Was in Ipoh in March 2017. Will be returning again in March and Sept next year... with real confidence.
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answered on Nov 29, 2017 at 23:33
by   Anonymous
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 07:01
 
@blondesundoll

'jumban' means in Malay "out door dugout toilet".

Listen to him. He might have a backdoor way to this travel issue. Cheers.
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answered on Dec 15, 2017 at 18:15
by   cendol
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 07:04
 
Hi all,

Got a mate just got back to London from Malaysia. No questions ask if you still have the OLD vignette Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) with your Malaysia passport.

As for Biometric Residence Permit (BRP), UK side will know straightaway whether you're a UK citizen or not and at the entry point they'll confiscate the BRP card on the spot.

As for the Right of Abode (ROA), by law it expired if your passport expired, and one is required to re-apply it which we all know it doesn't makes sense; what every 5 years by paying silly money? But of course you can't re-apply it after turning British.

BUT... I've seen many friends still travelling with the expired ROA along with a valid Malaysia passport and no questions asked from the departing point in Malaysia nor at the entry point of UK. So it seems like "no issue".

In my case, I only hold the old vignette ILR on my expired Malaysia passport, so I will have to travel with 2 Malaysia passport book. I'm flying home next August...so good luck to me.

Please share if you guys come across any tricky situations, a heads-up is always appreciated.
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answered on Dec 16, 2017 at 23:35
by   Ah Sai
edited Dec 18, 2017 at 07:08
 
Cendol, thanks for sharing.... I have read all Dual Citizenship issues on site, concentrating on UK issues.

1. Old vignette Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Many use this vehicle for movement between UK and Malaysia. Difficulty is that other countries do not recognise UK practices.... Also, it is now getting difficult to change jobs without a BRP.

2. BRP, (Biometric Residence Permit) once you apply for UK Citizenship, you have to surrender your BRP.

3. ROA (Right of Abode Certificate) This is pasted on to your current passport. As you say, by law it should be renewed at cost, over £150, every five years. Many foreigners are unaware of this. If you are travelling between UK and Malaysia, the Border Control Officer will allow you through... As you say

My Case. I have ILR Vignettes in my old Malaysian Passports, and now meet the criteria for becoming a UK Citizen. But I also want the freedom of renewing my passport at the High Commission in London.

Hi Com will only renew if you show proof that you have no immigration control and you are not breaking Visa law etc. They may also demand to see a letter from the home office saying you have not applied or have UK Citizenship.

Many friends have got UK Passports by just applying. They did not have to be naturalised or go through ceremony.

My Plan for 2018. I will ask for a letter from the home office to say that I am not a UK Citizen. 

See link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/618327/form-nq-06-17.pdf

I may also apply for an ROA at Liverpool to be stuck in my current Malaysian Passport. Not sure yet. I will keep this and my other Malaysian Passports with Vignettes for future use. I will apply for UK Citizenship, and get a UK passport for travelling. Have to properly investigate this route. Maybe I will just apply for a UK passport first as I have stayed here for over five years.

When I travel to Malaysia I will only use Malaysian passports. If questioned at entry I will say that Malaysia does not allow dual nationallity. To renew my passport at the Hi Com in London, I will show the letter plus passports with ROA and ILR Vignettes.

This my plan after reading issues and responses on this site. Very very informative and good luck to me too.
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