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Guarantor - Notice of Bankruptcy

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asked on Jan 27, 2016 at 01:51
by   Milo
Haish.. I've tried so hard to keep my credit zero.. And I did a stupid emotional mistake by being a guarantor for my sister  She took a loan with BSN, not able to pay, and now the bank make her bankrupt. She had been under Insolvency program early of last year. Stupid enough for not knowing about the bankruptcy world, I didn’t ask one question: "What happened to me now?". Until early this month, where I realized my bank accounts (Maybank and HSBC)  was frozen. Seems like BSN had given the Notice of Bankruptcy on me. I didn’t attend the court session (because I don’t know about it). My sister apparently hide all those letters that was addressed to me. No words to describe. Put feeling aside, now I am really at the end of my wit. I need help to guide me what should I do next. Here what I already did:
1) Sent appeal letter to Maybank to unfreeze the account. Maybank said need letter from BSN.
2) BSN said they are doing some paperwork. Do not know what paperwork. Then their DMRS manager said they don’t produce letter.
3) Maybank said if they get an email from BSN, they will unfreeze the account.
4) BSN refuse to send email and keep on mentioning they are not responsible for other bank to freeze the account because they didn’t ask the bank to do so.
5) Went to Bank Negara to ask advise. Basically the lady just said "Go to Insolvensi. We cannot do anything. Pity you, so young already bankcrupt". (Seriously, what the hell?)
6) Went to Insolvency and the lady asked to do Carian. My status is "Not Bankrupt".
7) Wrote a proposal to settle to BSN on the debt that I didn’t even use.
8) Sent the Insolvency result to Maybank, they still said cannot unfreeze.

What should I do now? I have payments that I need to pay at the end of the month. My primary account is frozen. I don’t even know where my salary should go as I cannot ask Insolvency permission to let the bank unfreeze my account because basically I am not a bankrupt. I am sooooo lost  Please any knowledgeable lawyers help me. Should I:
1) Do Carian in the Court?
        2) Contact BSN lawyer?
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 02:14
by   vkpc
1) Do Carian in the Court?
Yes, do this quickly. Get the case number from your Notis Kebangkrapan.  ( ask from sister )
Pay RM 15 for the search and photostat every document inside the file.

How much money is frozen in MBB and HSBC?
Is it enough to cover your sister's debts?
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 02:29
by   Milo
Thanks vkpc for your quick reply. I am touched.

I will do the first one as soon as possible. I got the letter from my sister after she "attended the court on my behalf". Stupid move from her as I want to decide for myself. And not her making another mistake. After this, what should be my next step?

MBB - huge amount (even with on-time payment with all their services, still they are not considering to help me). But not enough to cover her debt. Wrote proposal to BSN, they replied they will let me know. But they seem to refuse telling the exact date for me to follow up.

HSBC, a few hundreds (not primary account and I do not have the mood to wait for 2 days in their line to just get zero progress).
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 03:18
by   vkpc
Do you have any Joint Accounts? It might not be frozen.
Alternatively, if you are still not a bankrupt, you could open a Joint Account with your spouse with another Bank. You may need this for salary purposes.

Get all your siblings together for a meeting to see if everybody can help chip in to cover the debt.
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 03:51
by   Milo
Hello vkpc.. unfortunately, I am the sole bread winner of the family. I do well in my career and salary wise is good with the current economy situation but no access to all my savings.. I have been crying all days (yes, secretly in the office toilet) and nights thinking about this issue. My sister basically just ignore me.

I am thinking of opening a Joint Account but I do not want to have my husband be dragged along with this misfortune. I am so lucky to have have such good support from my husband and now from you for all the advises.

I want to know what I should do to get access to my savings. I want to know the direction I need to go. Basically banks are just passing me around their departments like a soccer ball. I want to know, after extraction of all the documents from the high court, what shall be my next step of action?

P/S: Basically, my nights are just filled with me thinking what did I do wrong to deserve this? T__T
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 04:47
by   vkpc
I want to know, after extraction of all the documents from the high court, what shall be my next step of action?
After the extraction, you will know what stage of bankruptcy proceeding is your case now.
Then you can decide whether to fight, to negotiate or to let insolvensi dept handle everything.

I want to know what I should do to get access to my savings. I want to know the direction I need to go. Basically banks are just passing me around their departments like a soccer ball.
If you fight and win your bankruptcy proceedings, Maybank may unfreeze your account. ( this may take many months )
If you negotiate with BSN and they agree to some settlement ( either lump sum or installment ) you can ask them to withdraw the Notice of Bankruptcy, then Maybank may unfreeze your account.
If you become bankrupt, Maybank will pass your funds to Insolvensi to be used to partially pay the debt.

The best thing you can do now is not to think about the money in your savings account, but to think about how to get your next salary safely.
Talk to your boss or accounts dept to see if they can bank in your salary to your husband's account or pay you in cash.  Reconsider opening a Joint Account asap.
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 14:56
by   Aurora
Dear Milo

I feel for you ;(

Please follow through as VKPC's advice.

On your monologue of why this happened to you, trust me, you would never know why now but you will eventually as you go through all these processes putting things back in order.

Take care and hang in there Milo
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 18:09
by   Milo
Thanks Aurora for your emotional support. I really appreciate it.

Dear vkpc.. here is my update so far:
1) Carian File completed this morning.
Extracted the documents from Mahkamah Tinggi Shah Alam. It's a lot of documents T__T (There are 12 documents all together). I even copied the minutes where my sister attended the court on my behalf.
Carian Cost: RM12 and Printing Cost: RM2/page.

May I know what you mean by "After the extraction, you will know what stage of bankruptcy proceeding is your case now."? I have another hearing on July (do not remember the date).

2) My decision for now is actually to negotiate with BSN for guarantor release (paying proposed amount & negotiate).
Interesting comment from you that if I choose to settle (either lump sum or installment), I can ask BSN to withdraw the Notice of Bankruptcy. My questions:
i- Even after agreement from BSN, do they have the right to not withdraw the Notice of Bankruptcy on me?
ii- If the agreement is agreed and settlement done, what are the documents that I need to secure from BSN to ensure in the future, they will not come back to me again?

3) Reason choosing not to fight:
i- Not enough knowledge
ii- Process takes too long
iii- Do not know the chance of winning (assumption that I have is 0%)

4) Will open a Joint Account. Question:
i- Will BSN try to link me with the other account holder just to get break even with what they are accumulating (monetary)?
ii- Basically to say, will they chase after the other account holder and get hold of the money in that Joint Account?

P/S: Btw, I read in some of the thread in this forum that ask the bank to propose a settlement and we can counter the value. That is not true for BSN case. Basically they are acting like any Sales person does. Get the highest from what you can offer, and they will bring it to their board to decide.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tips for people who wants to go to Mahkamah Tinggi Shah Alam:
1) GPS Coordinate:
2) Park outside the building beside the road as the inside parking is only for lawyers. Come early if you want to park at a "safe" side. There is a public parking but I failed to find it.
3) Go to Sayap Kiri. The bankruptcy counter opens at 8:45 a.m.
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 19:09
by   rayna
Dear Milo

What document did you extract?

Kindly state the name of the documents together with the date

e.g: Notis Kebankrapan - 1 Januari 2015
Afidavit Penyampaian - 20 Januari 2015
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 19:47
by   jebat
Hai Milo,

Duduk dan bincang dengan adik u, jual keretanya supaya boleh settle hutang ni.
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answered on Jan 27, 2016 at 19:54
by   vkpc
i- Will BSN try to link me with the other account holder just to get break even with what they are accumulating?
No.  The law does not allow this.

ii- Basically to say, will they chase after the other account holder and get hold of the money in that Joint Account?
They can't chase after your husband.  This is law.
If your Joint Account get frozen, Insolvensi will have to return half to him, which is very troublesome.
This is why some Joint Accounts don't get frozen.  Withdraw your salary within a few days and keep small amounts in the Joint Account.  Do not delay.  If you become a bankrupt in the near future, you may not be able to open the Joint Account.
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