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Melawan Petisyen Pemiutang Affin Bank Part 3

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asked on Aug 18, 2015 at 19:08
by   kaka
Dear idries,
Sila sambung di sini. Part 2 semakin panjang susah bace.
Poskan hujahan mereka.
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answered on Sep 25, 2015 at 21:57
by   notalawyer
1. Bagaimana mendapatkan salinan penghakiman dari pkp seperti yang telah dibacakannya pada 22 September lalu?
Encik boleh tulis surat rasmi kepada PKP meminta Nota Keterangan ( Notes of Evidence)  untuk keputusan yang dilafazkan pada 22 Sept. Jangan lambat.

Mana Notis Rayuan Kepada Hakim Dalam Kamar?
Jangan buat pada saat terakhir!
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answered on Sep 25, 2015 at 22:31
by   jeff005
@ rayna

Very good case discussion on the above.
Maybe I shall expand my opinions on the above.
I have had 3 bankrupts writing to me direct without going thru lawyerment and have asked me the same questions and stated that at the point if being made an adjudged bankrupt their house was not "foreclosed" and they (JIM) did allow them to carry on their housing intstalments as usual and still live in it. Upon further questions I did discovered that for the 3 bankrupts they is a substantial "shortfall" when lelong the house at well below market value, making it not feasible for JIM to take over it after the mandatory 6 months. So, in most instances, they "close one eye". One of them did not even "declare" that property.

There is  a bankrupt who may have come in ocassionally on this forum to read.. to him " bro, why dont you share your story about the house you have and still paying instalments but is NOT living in it"? The condo is worth around 600K now..!! I cant share i out publicly as it involves other "declarations" not made in the SOA.... only you can write and verify it.

But the main issue is when the house is fully paid up, that is when when JIM can enforce the lelong. The only solution is to be discharged before the loan is fully paid. Then there is no longer a threat for the ex bankrupt house to be lelong.

Why have to declare housing and car loans in the SOA when reporting in to JIM.?
Simple answer.
It has been categorised in the SOA.

Why the OA do not ask or check?
Answer.
Either inexperienced or trained not to ask.

Why a bankrupt has to make an appointment to report in to JIM?
It is to compile the bankrupt database.
Of course, the usual bkcy papers are there. There is also one impt report.
The BNM CCRIS report. This one is different from the ones the public can extract. It contains more details.
So, dont think that JIM/OA does not know about the existing housing and car loan. They buat bodoh only. THEY KNOWS..!! So when a bankrupt applies for discharge after completing 5 years of case manangement with JIM, the application will be rejected as there are "flaws" in the SOA which is declared, verified and validated (the identity of the bankrupt) by a Commission Of Oaths. Buat lagi another 5 years till the bankrupt "surrender" the Fixed Assets. The another 5 years, carry on being a bankrupt till FULL settlement of bankrupted amount. That is why a lot of bankrupts are not discharged on technicalities. If not, when JIM discharges a bankrupt, JIM looses some revenue too.

Notice there is a Law which states that if JIM does not discharge a bankrupt, a bankrupt can make an appliction of discharge to th HIGH COURT. Then the bankrupt and JIM will have to state their facts in the High Court. Who do you think will win if one have broken Laws of Bankruptcy when making "flaws" in the SOA.??

Better i stop writing otherwise i would be labelled "presumptuous, attention-seeking Ol'Fool"
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answered on Sep 26, 2015 at 00:09
by   kiki
JeffOO5,

So in conclusion what will the best move for Idries then..

''To be or not to be.''
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answered on Sep 26, 2015 at 01:29
by   jeff005
@ kiki

Has he got any workable path left other than to make an appeal.?
4 1/2 months ago I charted a workable path.
In short... Sell the house asap to pay Affin Bank. With CASH,nego for a big discount or be bankrupted.
Now bankrupted(pending appeal) plus lose the house plus bring inconveniences to himself and family given the shorter timeframe.
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answered on Sep 26, 2015 at 13:49
by   steven
In short, sell the house asap to pay Affin Bank
How to sell the house when he is a already blacklisted by the Notis Kebangkrapan served?
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answered on Sep 26, 2015 at 14:23
by   jeff005
Via a court order. A composition to repay, by selling the house to repay this particular debt, reached between JC and JD in a open court, could be same as a JDS. Then this Notis Kehadiran will be postponed or set aside with the option to be refile if the JD defaults on this deal. Tuan Idries is fully aware of this option. Using this option he controls the sale price of the house at market value. But now, Bank Rakyat controls the lelong price at well below market value.

This is personal opinion only. I have read that there will cases done outside of Msia, but hope to find cases here for references.

Even when Idries is adjudged a Bankrupt NOW, there is a recourse.

Now Idries can only invoke this section of the Bankruptcy Act to avoid being bankrupted.


Act 360 Bankruptcy Act 1967

Power to accept composition or scheme after bankruptcy adjudication

26. (1) Where a debtor is adjudged bankrupt the creditors may,
if they think fit, at any time after the adjudication, by special
resolution, resolve to entertain a proposal for a composition in
satisfaction of the debts due to them under the bankruptcy, or for
a scheme of arrangement of the bankrupt’s affairs, and thereupon
the same proceedings shall be taken and the same consequences
shall ensue as in the case of a composition or scheme entertained
at the first meeting of creditors.

(2) If the court approves the composition or scheme it may
make an order annulling the bankruptcy and vesting the property
of the bankrupt in him or in such other person as the court appoints,
on such terms and subject to such conditions, if any, as the court
declares.

(3) If default is made in payment of any instalment due in
pursuance of the composition or scheme, or if it appears to the
court that the composition or scheme cannot proceed without injustice
or undue delay, or that the approval of the court was obtained by
fraud, the court may, if it thinks fit, on application by any person
interested, adjudge the debtor bankrupt and annul the composition
or scheme, but without prejudice to the validity of any sale, disposition
or payment duly made or thing duly done under or in pursuance
of the composition or scheme.

(4) Where a debtor is adjudged bankrupt under subsection (3)
all debts provable in other respects, which have been contracted
before the date of such adjudication, shall be provable in the
bankruptcy.
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answered on Sep 28, 2015 at 04:21
by   Idries
Salam semua.
Banyak hujahan yang membina. Terimakasih yang terlibat....kiki, rayna, jeff005, steven dan notalawyer.

1. Rayna, tentang pengecualian untuk rumah terus diduduki, saya juga ada membaca beberapa artikel yang menjelaskannya. Saya cuma bimbang kepada puhak bank rakyat yang mungkin tidak mahu bertolak ansur.

2. Kiki, saya sedang menyiapkan maklumat untuk dihantar kepada Puan Nancy kita (tak pasti pula dia ada Datuk atau Datin0.

3. Notalawyer, saya sudah siapkan notis tersebut dan pada masa yang sama saya sedang membuat carian untuk perbandingan.

4. Jeff005. Pending bankrupted-adakah tidak dibenarkan membuat penjualan rumah? Proses rayuan tentunya mengambil masa dan selagi saya belum menerima Perintah Penerimaan atau Perintah Penghakiman, mungkin penjualan rumah boleh berlaku. Benar atau tidak?

5. Kiki dan rayna, rayuan saya untuk memohon agar rumah dilelong adalah berdasarkan beberapa faktor,

- saya tiada mempunyai pekerjaan tetap yang mana hanya sebagai guru tuisyen yang juga dilakukan di dalam salah satu bilik di dalam rumah tersebut

- pendapatan yang tidak tetap akibat keluar masuk pelajar yang diluar kawalan saya. Minima 1k sebulan. Saya gunakan sebahagian besar dari pendapatan tersebut untuk komitment bayaran ansuran tanpa gagal.

-tentunya saya tiada lagi peluang untuk memiliki rumah pada masa akan datang. Mungkin Najib susah hati juga sebab satu keluarga satu rumah tak tercapai.

Terima kasih
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answered on Sep 28, 2015 at 05:25
by   jeff005
@ Idries

Pending bankrupted-adakah tidak dibenarkan membuat penjualan rumah? Proses rayuan tentunya mengambil masa dan selagi saya belum menerima Perintah Penerimaan atau Perintah Penghakiman, mungkin penjualan rumah boleh berlaku. Benar atau tidak?

You are already a BANKRUPT now..!! Now waiting for the RO to come out. That is why the PKP ask you to file an "Appeal" within the 14 days.

From what I understand from real estates agents, it may take 6-8months for a "fully Paid " house to transfer ownership and for final bank release payment. For those houses under housing loan it may take even longer. by then "every govern agences" will block any transactions under your name. And knowing you are already a bankrupt you still do not want to dclare this house? Still want to break laws of bkcy. You did not heed my advice last time, now, do try to see if this legal composition can save you from being a NAMED BANKRUPT..

Pleas do not waste any more time asking the less important questions or taking about politics about lajib. Even he cannot help on your status now. Request from senior forumers on how to write
1/ Letter of Appeal
with supporting docs (maybe supporting affidavit)
2/ Invoke the above section for a "composition" that is acceptable in court.

Sori, I cant write "petition" whether in Mangish or Bahasa Malaysia. My data sure "auto corrupt" by the 3rd 4th paragraph. Request for help from senior forumers. The whole thingy has come this far for the past 4 months.

Note :- You do not have much time left.
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answered on Sep 28, 2015 at 05:39
by   Idries
Thanks jeff005. Will continue with appeal.

Others forumers....

1. Berapakah caj yang dikenakan oleh pihak pendaftar untuk menfailkan notis dan afidavit sokongan?

2. Surat untuk mendapatkkan salinan penghakiman pada 22 september itu ditujukan kepada siapa? Dan melalui pos atau melalui serahan tangan?

3. Saya akan masukkan deraf notis pada esok petang. Nak buat sedikit perubahan.

4. Selain dari usaha saya merayu di mahkamah, saya akan teruskan rayuan dan aduan untuk memastikan rumah tidak dilelong oleh bank. Saya usaha dulu, jika gagal dalam rayuan dan gagal juga mendapat perhatian dari pihak-pihak tertentu, saya bersiap sedia untuk berpindah.

Saya berusaha dulu.
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answered on Sep 28, 2015 at 13:13
by   steven
You did not heed my advice last time, now, do try to see if this legal composition can save you from being a NAMED BANKRUPT..
He is already a bankrupt since 22nd Sept...
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