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Congrats to Aurora for High Court appeals win

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asked on Feb 16, 2015 at 14:27
by   notalawyer
This thread continues from
http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-2933.htm

Hi Aurora,
Now comes hard part, to win again at the full trial.
Please prepare your defense and post it here for checking.
You don't have much time left, and pls don't do things last minute again.
Also post the Draft Perintah for your High Court win here, you need it to pressure the bank to give up.
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answered on Mar 17, 2015 at 17:36
by   notalawyer
How do i write to them this time around if nothing comes out from my first letter?
Sometimes the bank law firm is afraid to bank will force them to pay the RM800, so they keep quiet hoping the problem will go away.  Law firms are usually destitute and have no money to pay.
After Friday, you need to send another letter to bank's Legal Department to threaten them next.
Copy the 2nd sample cover letter from gladt and post here for checking.
Call up the bank and ask for the Legal Dept fax number.
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answered on Mar 17, 2015 at 23:43
by   Aurora
Dear @Notalawyer

This afternoon i received the Jawapan kepada pembelaan defendan as follows: -

1. Melainkan sebagaimana yang dinyatakan disini plaintif bercantum isu dengan defendan di atas kesemua pernyataan2 yang diplidkan dalam pembelaan bertarikh 25.02.2015

2. plaintif merujuk pada perenggan 1 dan 2 pembelaan tersebut dan menegaskan bahawa defendan diletakkan ke atas beban pembuktian kukuh untuk membuktikan setiap satu penegasan di dalamnya dan plaintif menegaskan bahawa pada setiap masa yang material defendan masih berhutangan dengan plaintif ke atas penggunaan kemudahan kad kerdit yang dibekal oleh plaintif kepada defendan

3.plaintif merujuk pada perenggan 3, 4 dan 5 pembelaan tersebut dan menegaslan seperti bahwa defendan tidakmenafikan keberhutangannya kepada plaintif dan defendan juga tidak pernah berjumpa dengan plaintif dan/atau agen2 plaintif bagi mempertikaikan penyata kad kredit yang dihantar kepada defendan

4. perbuatan defendan bagi mengendahkan penyata2 kad kredit yang dihantar kepada plaintif bertujuan untuk mengelakkan adan/atau melarikan diri daripada bayaran kembali kepada penggunaan kad kredit yang diperuntukkan kepada defendan

5. seterusnya plaintif turut menyatakan bahawa defendan tidak pernah sama sekali berjumpa dengan plaintif dan/atau agen2 plaintif bagi mempertikaikan kad kreditnya yang telah dibatalkan oleh plaintif

6. plaintif merujuk perenggan 6 pembelaan tersebut dan menafikan tohmahan defendan pada perenggan tersebut selanjutnya plaintif menyatakan bahwa tiada sebarang keistimewaan yang dinyatakan oleh plaintif dalam pernyataa tuntutan yang telah difailkan. defendan dengan jelas tidak memasukkan pembelaan bermerit dan hanya melehang-lengahkan tindakan undang2 ke atasnya yang turut membazir masa mahkamah yang mulia ini

7. plaintif menafikan kandungan prenggan 7 permbelaa tersebut dan meletakkan beban pembuktiaan ke atas defendan bagi membuktikan tohmahannya.

8. plaintif turut menyatakan bahwa pembelaan defendan tidak langsung menjawap kepadapernyataan tuntutan plaintif. selanjutnya plaintif menyatakan bahwa defendan dengan sengaja memasukkan pembelaan tanpa memplidkan sebarang alsan yang munasabah bagi tujuan melengahkan tindakan plaintif ke atas mereka sekaligus menyalahgunakan kuasa mahkamah.

9 plaintif dengan rendah diri memohon agar tuntutan sebagaimana yang terkandung dalam pernyataan tuntututan ke atas defedan-defendan dibenarkan dengan kos.
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 01:53
by   notalawyer
Can you analyse it and tell us what you think about the bank's reply to your defence.
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 02:42
by   Aurora
Yes Notalawyer. Ill do that tom. Posted it before i left the office today. Interesting reply though
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 17:04
by   Aurora
Good morning Notalawyer

It seems that the reply was done in a haste that even their reply to my defence was jumbled up.

2. plaintif merujuk pada perenggan 1 dan 2 pembelaan tersebut dan menegaskan bahawa defendan diletakkan ke atas beban pembuktian kukuh untuk membuktikan setiap satu penegasan di dalamnya dan plaintif menegaskan bahawa pada setiap masa yang material defendan masih berhutangan dengan plaintif ke atas penggunaan kemudahan kad kerdit yang dibekal oleh plaintif kepada defendan

My Reply - I remember the Magistrate stated in her grounds of judgment that I did not provide any evidence to substantiate this claim and I do remember what the High Court told the lawyer in the chamber about people only keep documents up to 7 years for tax purposes.

So, I can still use this line of reasoning plus I can also state that as the provider of the credit card, the bank should be able to ascertain that facts via their system and produce to the court the statement to quash my defence.

3.plaintif merujuk pada perenggan 3, 4 dan 5 pembelaan tersebut dan menegaslan seperti bahwa defendan tidakmenafikan keberhutangannya kepada plaintif dan defendan juga tidak pernah berjumpa dengan plaintif dan/atau agen2 plaintif bagi mempertikaikan penyata kad kredit yang dihantar kepada defendan

My reply - I have a letter from the bank, sent last year, saying that they sent their statement to my old office address when I was with the bank. 

When they say in their reply that I did not deny that I am indebted to them, how do I tell them that yes I do but they don’t have any legal rights to take actions against me as the debt is time-barred?

4. perbuatan defendan bagi mengendahkan penyata2 kad kredit yang dihantar kepada plaintif bertujuan untuk mengelakkan dan/atau melarikan diri daripada bayaran kembali kepada penggunaan kad kredit yang diperuntukkan kepada defendan.

My reply - How do i tell them that they have been sending it to an old address and that they and their debt collector know my mailing address for years and yet they still send it there.

5. seterusnya plaintif turut menyatakan bahawa defendan tidak pernah sama sekali berjumpa dengan plaintif dan/atau agen2 plaintif bagi mempertikaikan kad kreditnya yang telah dibatalkan oleh plaintif

My reply - Why the need to question when i have stopped using it in 2003?

6. plaintif merujuk perenggan 6 pembelaan tersebut dan menafikan tohmahan defendan pada perenggan tersebut selanjutnya plaintif menyatakan bahwa tiada sebarang keistimewaan yang dinyatakan oleh plaintif dalam pernyataa tuntutan yang telah difailkan. defendan dengan jelas tidak memasukkan pembelaan bermerit dan hanya melehang-lengahkan tindakan undang2 ke atasnya yang turut membazir masa mahkamah yang mulia ini

My reply - My perenggan 6 is about their debt collectors have been calling me and asking me to make payment since 2004 but their reply is to my perenngan 7 which is that my card has no keistimewaan.

The bank has admitted that there is nothing special about the card but it did not answer why no actions were taken before and why now after more than 10 years.

7. plaintif menafikan kandungan prenggan 7 permbelaan tersebut dan meletakkan beban pembuktiaan ke atas defendan bagi membuktikan tohmahannya.

My reply - I think they were referring to my perenggan 8 when i said that their action is time barred after they failed to take any actions within 6 years from the date of last payment.

How do i ask them to show it to the court my last date of payment.

8. plaintif turut menyatakan bahwa pembelaan defendan tidak langsung menjawap kepada pernyataan tuntutan plaintif. selanjutnya plaintif menyatakan bahwa defendan dengan sengaja memasukkan pembelaan tanpa memplidkan sebarang alsan yang munasabah bagi tujuan melengahkan tindakan plaintif ke atas mereka sekaligus menyalahgunakan kuasa mahkamah.

My reply - Well, i am not answering to their statement because i protest it. And how dare they say that i have misused the court's power.

9. plaintif dengan rendah diri memohon agar tuntutan sebagaimana yang terkandung dalam pernyataan tuntututan ke atas defedan-defendan dibenarkan dengan kos.

Based on my banking experience, the court would ask the banker to provide the bank statement, the formula to calculate the interest etc. I dont think the Magistrate should deny me this just because this is JUST a CC debt.
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 19:30
by   notalawyer
My opinion,

The bank lawyer's reply to your defence is
amateurish, emotional (as if it was written by a non-lawyer),
copy and paste from other lawyer's works and most importantly
did not reply adequately to your defence paragraphs 7, 8 and 9 which is fatal to their case.

Looks like you are going to win again, but don't get big headed yet.

For now we concentrate on pressuring them for the RM800 to make them even more emotional so they lose focus.
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 19:41
by   Aurora
Dear Notalawyer

This my draft letter to the bank's legal dept: -

Your Ref:  ______

23.03.2015

---- BANK BERHAD                   Via Fax / Via POSLAJU
LEGAL DEPARTMENT
------
ATTN.: PUAN -------

RE: RAYUAN GUAMAN SIVIL NO: _______
    GUAMAN NO: -------
    - SEALED COURT ORDERS

Enclosed herewith is a copy of the Sealed Court Orders dated 13.02.2015 and 11.11.2014, respectively for the above matters, together with a covering letter dated 06.03.2015, addressed to Mssrs ----- & Partners.

Kindly immediately make full payment of the Judgment Costs Sum of RM800 (Ringgit Malaysia Lapan Ratus Sahaja), failing which I will proceed to execution without further notice to you.

Thank you.

Yours faithfully,
Aurora
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 19:45
by   Aurora
Thank you Notalawyer on your opinion re the reply by the lawyer, which i concur.

Do i need to reply to them?
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 20:20
by   Jeff05
Hi Aurora dEAR..

It appears to be work of a new lawyer taking over the case and is still harping on old issues not realising that there has been an appeal done and your strategy have been changed, revised and refined. Stereotypes of law bookworms and still trying to beat around the bush to bully us non lawyers..!!

Be Calm.. be Confident of your line of defense.. Not to be slacken.. and WIN WITH PRIDE on your own acheivement (Of course with impt Guidance from the A.I.RobotMan)

Cheers hani..
Jeff
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answered on Mar 18, 2015 at 22:42
by   1818
Imagine you are the client and your lawyer put in this kind of work....
Habis...
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