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What to do with fully paid car but bank still the owner

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asked on Jan 27, 2015 at 00:53
by   Kamil
Recently I was made a bankrupt due to unpaid cc. I didn't receive any letters as they might have been sent to my old address. I came to know about my bankruptcy when my bank account was closed upon instruction by JIM. I don't have any assets in my name except for a 2002 car that has been fully paid in 2007. The market value is around RM20K.

An insurance agent friend of mine says he could help me getting the car sold or ownership transferred despite my status. I intend to report in to JIM after I "settled" the car.

I sent the car to Puspakom without any problem. However, when I made a check with JPJ I was told that the bank has yet to transfer the ownership to me. Please help. What should I do now? Which below options is better in my saving the car?

1) Discontinue my plan to sell the car. I read from this forum that JIM cannot take car that is still under hire purchase. Am I right to assume that the car is still under hire purchase as ownership has not been tranferred?

Is there a section in SOA asking for hire purchase? If there is, what should I write then? Does it seem a bit awkward that no monthly payment made for a car that is still under hire purchase?

2) Or I just proceed as planned. Go to the bank, transfer ownership and sell the car? The risk here that I can think of is I will not succeed in selling the car (although my friend says not to worry.) Don't know if this info is relevant but the hire purchase bank is the same as the cc bank.

Dear Mr VKPC, Mr BR, En Abu Ammar and others. Please give some suggestions. Thank you in advance.
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10 Answers
answered on Jan 27, 2015 at 01:42
by   jeff005
1/ I read from this forum that JIM cannot take car that is still under hire purchase
Not accurate. Can point out to exact post? JIM can force sell a car still under HP if there is no "shortfall" and if there is notable balance after sale to be distributed to Judgement Creditors. Anyway the car is no longer under HP. The mistake made in your case is that in 2007, you may/did not have obtained a "Release Letter" from the bank and immediately transfer the ownership. It may be too late now as even at JPJ, the status of the car is still under the bank "caveat". Would the bank give you a release letter now.?

2/ Is there a section in SOA asking for hire purchase?
Yes, even if there isn't, the car should be recorded under "Assets" and the HP Loan Creditor recorded under "Liabilities".

3/ Don't know if this info is relevant but the hire purchase bank is the same as the cc bank
You are correct. This is relevant info. Try to pull a fast one, go to the HP branch and ask for a release letter now and see if you can get one. Dont try means cannot. Try and maybe can get.. If the HP dept have not updated your bkcy status, you may be able to get it. Or pay a "Used Car Dealer" of this bank branch to do it.. You have to give a authorisation letter. Transfer of ownership at JPJ is done by you, not by the bank.

4/ I don't have any assets in my name
Have you ever bough a notable property before and have sold/transfered it during the past 5 years? Btw, what is your bkcy amount? And are they any more other credit cards debts?
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answered on Jan 27, 2015 at 23:46
by   Kamil
Thank you Jeff05 for your reply. Went to the bank this afternoon, lucky no problem.
Transfer of ownership at JPJ is done by you, not by the bank.
Seems like you missed the train...haha. Now the bank just do it online, something called e-batal. After the bank transact online, just contact JPJ hotline to ask if the e-batal is done. Give at least a few hours or maybe a day before calling JPJ. If JPJ confirm that the e-batal is in their system then the bank ownership claim has already batal. If you still want JPJ to stamp BATAL on the grant, no hurry, just do it when you want to renew your road tax later.

I sold off all assets under my name some 7 years ago due to a potential civil suit but the liquidator stopped action midway. New house and car loans using my wife's name. All other cards were properly cancelled except for a S'pore Amex, SGD1K+ never been paid since 2005. Bkcy amount not sure but the cc balance around 12K somewhere in 2007.
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answered on Jan 28, 2015 at 00:17
by   jeff005
Hi Kamil

Thks for the new info.. The last time I bought or sold a car was 12years ago and even then wasn't in my personal name.. Hahaa.. Am really out of touch.. All these bkcy issues really affects a lot of ppl.. me especially..

Hope you can succesfully sell yr car asap..

Rdgs
Jeff
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answered on Jan 28, 2015 at 02:08
by   jeff005
An insurance agent friend of mine says he could help me getting the car sold or ownership transferred despite my status
Just a note of caution. Make sure you have signed copies of the sale by the buyer and should be in CASH. If the buyer does a HP, chances is that the bank will make a search for bkcy status on the seller and buyer. It is so easy, the bank will key in your name and ic no and sure it would be shown on the screen( yr bkcy status). Whereas the system at JPJ MAY not be updated yet. So, do everything fast now. Ask for CASH and sell cheaper..

Good Luck..
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answered on Jan 29, 2015 at 03:19
by   King
@jeff

hahaha..u 'missed the train' ...lol. anyways good advise(s) u gave. Kamil should be belanja'ing u.
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answered on Jan 29, 2015 at 03:30
by   jeff005
@King

Not only missed the train oso missed the plane/ship to Shanghai 2 years ago coz of scare to go make passport. Takut airpot polis chain me up.. as the result of "warrant of arrest".. hahahaa..... Stupid ass_hole rite?? Ignorant of bkcy laws and JIM R&R..!!! Luckily met vpkc at the suez canal..!! He pull me up from the hellhole.. Thks to him and his philosopical advices... He actually told me to marry a rich woman to solve my financial woes..!!
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answered on Jan 29, 2015 at 19:05
by   Kamil
Hi Jeff05
Not only missed the train oso missed the plane/ship to Shanghai 2 years ago coz of scare to go make passport. Takut airpot polis chain me up.. as the result of "warrant of arrest".. hahahaa..... Stupid ass_hole rite?? Ignorant of bkcy laws and JIM R&R..!!!
Only 2 years ago you were zero about these things? Wow! Can't believe it. Seems like you're in this for donkey number of years.
An insurance agent friend of mine says he could help me getting the car sold or ownership transferred despite my status
Just a note of caution. Make sure you have signed copies of the sale by the buyer and should be in CASH. If the buyer does a HP, chances is that the bank will make a search for bkcy status on the seller and buyer. It is so easy, the bank will key in your name and ic no and sure it would be shown on the screen( yr bkcy status). Whereas the system at JPJ MAY not be updated yet. So, do everything fast now. Ask for CASH and sell cheaper..
Hey thanks again man for the insight. Actually I am selling the car to a friend and unfortunately he can't come up with cash. So now I am thinking of a HP between him and me, maybe a few hundred dollars a month.

I guess I will have to make 2 agreements. One is a bohong2 S&P say for 20K and the other one is the "actual" HP agreement. What do you think? Does this kind of agreement need to have duty stamp?
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answered on Jan 29, 2015 at 20:07
by   jeff005
How can u make a HP agreement when u r not a banker? Does the car qualify for actual bank financing? You may perhaps made an I.O.U. between your wife and yr friend if you trust him. Make sure he pays a reasonable cash downpayment @35% and your wife buys a bank draft with her name made payable to yr friend name and then cash back her money. With or without the interests element, sign an agreement with frenz, witness by a commisioner of oaths, and add upon default, this car would be "realised" to be paid or transfered to your wife. In other words, the car is collectoral for this personal loan. Dunno whether this method can protect your interests or not, but it's food for thoughts..

Only 2 years ago you were zero about these things?
Correction. 5 months ago.!!

2 years ago my hani(dau) offered me a trip tp Shanghai for my birthday. I rejected the offer as i was scared to go to make passport. Last year she got fedup and bought a trip to Borodudur even before I got passport. It forced me to go to Immigration "like a scrimpering rat". I got my passport, and went for the trip. Even 3 hrs b4 the trip I was still accessing the Immg website to see if i am ban..!! At the immigration at KLIA2 I was so scared that I could be "tahan" and made a fool out of myself with everybody behind me laughing as i literally "shivering" and made "errors" at the booth.!! That is the reason why i am still on this forum. I know how it feels to be ignorant about LAWS and hope to help "those in need" as advocated by "vkpc"..
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answered on Jan 30, 2015 at 14:13
by   Kamil
Hi Jeff05
Only 2 years ago you were zero about these things?
Correction. 5 months ago.!!
That a double wow! Don't mind I ask, were you a bankrupt? If so what's your bkcy status now?

How can u make a HP agreement when u r not a banker?
I ever saw a HP between 2 persons. But to be sure I looked for pakcik google and found this:
“hirer” means the person who takes or has taken goods from an owner under a hire-purchase agreement and includes a person to whom the hirer’s rights or liabilities under the agreement have passed by assignment or by operation of law;
“owner” means a person who lets or has let goods to a hirer under a hire-purchase agreement and includes a person to whom the owner’s rights or liabilities under the agreement have passed by assignment or by operation of law;
This is from MALAYSIA HIRE-PURCHASE ACT 1967

But in my case I'll have to do it differently, transfer the ownership of the car at the beginning of the HP. Must truly based on trust I guess. Anyway I owe that friend guy a lot, don't mind losing the car to him rather than the bank. At least I know that his wife will use the car to ferry their children around.
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answered on Jan 30, 2015 at 15:58
by   jeff005
Hi Kamil

No.. Not yet bankrupt.. I started my defaults in 2004 at combined limits of 40K.. One bank has got JID in 2008 and I have been waiting since for any bkcy actions. My first post in this forum section was on 15th July 2014. To read my whole life history search under this section "Balderunner" "Bladirunner". I shouldnt have "run" or avoid..!!
.. http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/article-Malaysia_Business_Consumer_Bankruptcy_Law-2808.htm

Thanks for the new knowledge on HP. The only HP R&R and Laws was i learn it from Pakcik ABU AMMAR (same age bro).

Opinions on your intention to draw a HP agreement..
1/ You have been adjudged a bankrupt before the car was transfered back to your name.
2/ Then you have "sold" your car via a HP agreement means you have broken 2 sets of Laws (Bankruptcy and HP)
3/ Take note that JIM/DGI has the powers to "clawback" the asset, "null and void" any agreements. Your risk is higher than others as both HP and Judgement Creditor is the same bank. Read @steven case "his house"..

Suggested solutions
1/ Sell the car for CASH (to your friend) and make side agreements thru your wife name and maybe others. Make bank trannsactions to appear very legitimate to avoid "clawback".
2/ Make "personal loans" agreements to avoid breaking of any other "Laws"(if any) as in your case you are in insolvency status.
3/ The "CASH" monies you received thru this transaction, just meet me in Genting Casino at appointed time and pay it to me for your gambling debt lost to me in last year world cup. We split the proceeds and have a gala time there.!! Game..?? JIM cannot chase you for monies paid out..!! CASH ma..

p/s Careful.. dont oso loose your wife to your good friend.. I kena..!!
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